FAO: Christians

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Originally Posted by Ghost

No one. God was the first and only thing before he created The heavens, universe and earth.

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No human described 'God' created the universe, especially if we're talking about the Christian God since his attributes and qualities are most widely known and contradictory. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful and has an infinite existence, why did he decide to create the universe only 13.5 billion years ago? It should have always existed. What held him back? If something held him back, he's limiting his omnipotence. If he's existed for eternity and is all-knowing, he's known for eternity that he was going to create the universe, so therefore the universe should have existed for all eternity aswell, but this is illogical because it would mean he couldn't have created it. It would have always been there. So either God hasn't existed for eternity, both God and the universe have an infinite existence and both weren't created or God doesn't exist and the universe is finite and was created by itself.

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He created them. That's just it. God is the most powerful thing ever.

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Created them for what purpose? God would have no reason or need to create anything.

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God gave us knowledge and blood. Try reading Genesis the first book of the Bible.

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'God' never gave anyone knowledge. Our knowledge has been obtained through experimentation and observation.

God, being eternal, exists outside of time, so for Him there's no before or after: everything happens at once. Therefore God could have created the Universe as soon as He existed.

God doesn't need a reason to do anything.

He gave us the ability to have knowledge.

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Originally Posted by The Editor

God, being eternal, exists outside of time, so for Him there's no before or after: everything happens at once. Therefore God could have created the Universe as soon as He existed.

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Which would make the universe infinite and eternal aswell.

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God doesn't need a reason to do anything.

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He's supposed to be perfect. What reason does a perfect being have to create anything? Even the universe?

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He gave us the ability to have knowledge.

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Okay.

The Universe exists within time, and so doesn't have to be eternal.

Like I said, He doesn't need one. He just did, and that's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by The Editor

The Universe exists within time, and so doesn't have to be eternal.

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But it would be. If the universe was created at the same instant God existed (ie; for all eternity), then it would also be eternal, but then couldn't have been created, thus causing that contradiction. Don't know how much simpler I can put this.

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Like I said, He doesn't need one. He just did, and that's all there is to it.

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That's not an answer, The Editor.

I'm not actually sure the bible ever really says anything about God being omnipotent. If anything it portrays him as not being omnipotent/present at all.

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Originally Posted by somewhere in the bible

"The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.”

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sounds pretty singularly-present to me

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Originally Posted by The Editor

God, being eternal, exists outside of time, so for Him there's no before or after: everything happens at once.

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Have you read anything in the Bible? This is extremely untrue.

God (the Mod) Is abosolutely right in this instance. The Bible doesn't really say God is omniscient and omnipresent. (AT LEAST not in the Old Testament) Just like it never really says that the Big G is good. I'm a Christian and all, but I find it hard to believe that God the Father is All Good. The purely good award goes to his Son/Other Part Jesus H. Christ. God the Father, if you read the Bible at all, is vengeful, spiteful and petty. Read Job.... he suffers a great deal. In the end, yes he's made into a better person, he gained a good deal more humility, but the whole thing was basically God showing off and putting Satan in his place. Yes I love God, but I would be VERY hesitant to call him entirely Benevolent.

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Genesis 17:1: The Lord appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty".

Gen 35:11: And God said to him, "I am God Almighty".

Rev 19:6: For our Lord God Almighty reigns.

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The Bible definitely implies he's omnipotent.

And you'll notice I didn't say that he wasn't.

I was obviously referring to Tim's post you big fool.

I'm a moderate sized fool, you nihilistic ass, but sorry bout that, my mistake.

Forgive my snappishness, I'm tired. Need to sleep.

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Originally Posted by Pikatwo

you big fool.

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ahahahahaha

But yeah almighty/all-mighty doesn't necissarily mean onmipotent/present. More or less used as buzz words to mean extremely powerful. Being all-mighty isn't the same as being all-seeing and all-knowing.

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Originally Posted by Pikatwo

If God is all-knowing and all-powerful and has an infinite existence, why did he decide to create the universe only 13.5 billion years ago?

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My theory is that he created the earth 6 thousand years ago, not 13.5 billion. I don't know where you come up with those numbers.

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It should have always existed. What held him back? If something held him back, he's limiting his omnipotence. If he's existed for eternity and is all-knowing, he's known for eternity that he was going to create the universe, so therefore the universe should have existed for all eternity aswell, but this is illogical because it would mean he couldn't have created it. It would have always been there. So either God hasn't existed for eternity, both God and the universe have an infinite existence and both weren't created or God doesn't exist and the universe is finite and was created by itself

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God is outside of time. He created time with all other things. The mind cannot concieve what exactly or how exactly eternity is. God just 'is'.


Created them for what purpose? God would have no reason or need to create anything.[/quote] God created because he loves. He wants to love even though we are imperfect.

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I don't know where you come up with those numbers.

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Oh geez, I dunno, generally accepted scientific measurements?

See, at least Tim gives some logic and proof to back up his claims, whether or not I disagree with them. People like Ghost that cite nothing and give no proof in the slightest to their beliefs annoy me, because they seem like massive sheep.

I'm not doing this from a biblical basis, mainly because the Bible is bunk. Philosophy is where I'm coming from.

then your posting makes less sense

At the risk of making myself seem like an even bigger heretic, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya Ghost. God created because he wanted to be loved. He created Mankind basically for amusemen and gratification. True he does Love us, but his reasons were slightly more selfish than you present.

How so, God? The god of the philosophers is simply more clearly defined than the biblical version, while remaining within the three primary boundary conditions: omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. Any further characteristics are derived from the premise "God is the greatest possible being".

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Originally Posted by Qoorl

At the risk of making myself seem like an even bigger heretic, I'm gonna have to disagree with ya Ghost. God created because he wanted to be loved. He created Mankind basically for amusemen and gratification. True he does Love us, but his reasons were slightly more selfish than you present.

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It can go both ways. In my opinion yes he did it for amusment too, but he definatly cares. I'm not going to try to push myself on people but I will stand up for what I believe. I may not be the best debater and have all the proof in the world, but I have faith.

Suck my cock nocturne.

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Originally Posted by Ghost

It can go both ways. In my opinion yes he did it for amusment too, but he definatly cares. I'm not going to try to push myself on people but I will stand up for what I believe. I may not be the best debater and have all the proof in the world, but I have faith.

Suck my cock nocturne.

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You insolent prick. Ghost, what the fuck have you, at any point in time, contributed to this forum? You are a worthless nub with a monstrous sense of entitlement who has yet to be recognized in a positive sense by anyone on this forum. Generally, your posts are either ridiculous claims and flip-floppings in debates with no proof to back you up; senseless, bandwagoning "flame" posts directed towards me; or general ego stroking.

On the terms of your post, that is ridiculous. You're the one that made the thread, and now say that god is omnipotent and essentially shun the beliefs of atheists without any proof, continue to say nothing of value and just say "God is all powerful. He made [insert human quality here] when he created humankind". Unless you actually get the brains to prove why your faith has any chance of being correct, and stop parroting whoever it may be that led you to this faith, your faith means absolutely nothing. Stop trying to play the martyr and learn how to handle yourself.

ok

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Originally Posted by Ghost

My theory is that he created the earth 6 thousand years ago, not 13.5 billion. I don't know where you come up with those numbers.

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I said the universe is 13.5 billion years old, I never said anything about the Earth. Learn to read.

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God is outside of time. He created time with all other things. The mind cannot concieve what exactly or how exactly eternity is. God just 'is'.

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Time is a measurement of motion and change. A timeless state can't contain motion or change, therefore if God is timeless, he couldn't bring about change, ie; no creating the universe. Time can't be created since creation requires time.

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God created because he loves. He wants to love even though we are imperfect.

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Okay. A perfect being who is supposed to be complete and lacking nothing somehow feels the need to love.