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Thread: Socialism Hate Thread

  1. #1
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
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    Default Socialism Hate Thread

    I looked it up. Egalitarianism is by definition a principle of true libertarianism.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  2. #2
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Duh the thing is Libertarians believe everyone is born equal, as in has the same potential to succeed and they just need to fulfill it, whereas the fact is that family, culture, socio-economic status, childhood events, a whole bunch of shit effects people and people are simply not born into an equal environment, and social programs have to try to correct certain things to create equality as early as possible. It's a libertarian belief that people are born independent of their circumstances and history.

    I can't get behind the everything in the world is publically owned aspect of socialism, or the idea that everyone should be completely economically equal. People still need incentives to work harder. But no one should be without healthcare, no one should be homeless, no one should struggle to afford food or utilities, and first-world countries should not rape third-world countries. Basically everyone in the world should live at worst a fairly comfortable middle class life, but there is upward mobility to the upper class. I don't favor the abolition of the class system, just the abolition of the lower class.

  3. #3
    Advanced Trainer Nocturne's Avatar
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    Well then the middle class would be the new lower class, and the entire problem would re-occur. The class system is pretty much a lock.

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    Pokemon Champion Mario The Black Knight's Avatar
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    He isn't getting rid of the lower class because he doesn't like the name. He wants to get rid of the current standard for lower class because of you know, the whole being poor and living a shitty life thing.

    If today's middle class becomes the new lower class, there's nothing wrong with that at all. That means everyone in a first world country is living a comfortable life, the way it should be.

  5. #5
    Registered Users Regular TeenageAngst's Avatar
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    no one should be without healthcare
    You chain smoke 20 years of your life, you get lung cancer, you pay for it. It's a sin to abuse your body, or make changes to your body, or do stupid stuff, then expect the taxpayers to pay to patch you up. Libertarians believe that if you want to hurt yourself fine it's your right and freedom but don't drag unwilling parties into it and you clean your own mess up.

    no one should be homeless
    You mean the unemployed boozer on the street or the highschool dropout single mom who got pregnant to make the guy stick around only to drive him off? Few people are born homeless and the ones who are can get jobs and improve themselves.

    no one should struggle to afford food or utilities
    See above.

    first-world countries should not rape third-world countries
    Agreed.

    Your idea is there shouldn't be a radically upper class or a radically lower class, which is fine in theory. As Yahtzee points out so elliquently though theory has a way of disolving like biscuit in a sea of bullshit (or something like that). You have people putting in hard work where in a free economy they'd be making billions of dollars, but in your economy they'd be making significantly less because it'd be funneled down to the parasitic members of society. This stiffles ambition and doesn't give them as much money as they would otherwise have to embark on bigger and better adventures in capitalism.
    "I prefer a sane world where you are rewarded by providing people with something they want. Not arbitrarily rewarded in a status game that reminds me of chimpanzees." - nazgulnarsil

    Here I am with my empire
    Iíll bring you to your knees
    Ebb and flow with my desire
    Cause its all that youíve been taught to be

  6. #6
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeenageAngst View Post
    You mean the unemployed boozer on the street or the highschool dropout single mom who got pregnant to make the guy stick around only to drive him off? Few people are born homeless and the ones who are can get jobs and improve themselves.
    The government has been more than complacent in creating the kind of culture and society where these kinds of things happen. This kind of attitude is not only a condemnation of people who have put themselves in that position, but of their children as well, so the cycle continues.

    Agreed.
    Libertarians believing that free market capitalism can exist without third-world countries being raped by first-world countries and enforcing slavery and oppression on them, is a million times less realistic than any socialist belief that everyone can live harmonious classless society where everyone willingly gives up their money for the greater good of society and works to their full potential just to help others.

    Your idea is there shouldn't be a radically upper class or a radically lower class, which is fine in theory. As Yahtzee points out so elliquently though theory has a way of disolving like biscuit in a sea of bullshit (or something like that). You have people putting in hard work where in a free economy they'd be making billions of dollars, but in your economy they'd be making significantly less because it'd be funneled down to the parasitic members of society. This stiffles ambition and doesn't give them as much money as they would otherwise have to embark on bigger and better adventures in capitalism.
    Taxation would not even have to increase that much to provide adequate social welfare, healthcare, etc. It probably would increase a decent bit in the short-term, but the point of social programs is to eventually make social programs obsolete. Almost everyone in the lower class is there because of racism, classism, or a culture brought up by the ruling class to make people easier to control. "Bigger and better adventures in capitalism" usually incorporate this kind of thing.

    I don't think it will kill peoples ambitions because they may only be able to make 5 billion dollars instead of 50 billion dollars.

  7. #7
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
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    the difference between 5 billion and 50 billion is the difference between Windows and OSX.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  8. #8
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    rc, no one likes macs.

  9. #9
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
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    Exactly, if Microsoft wasn't so huge and dominating in the market before OSX came along it'd be struggling by now. It's because it was so grossly popular that it managed to stand against a superior product.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  10. #10
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    macs are ugly and stupid

  11. #11
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
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    I just remembered a Rush song that seems pretty fitting for this topic.

    There is unrest in the forest
    There is trouble with the trees
    For the maples want more sunlight
    And the oaks ignore their pleas

    The trouble with the maples
    (and they're quite convinced they're right)
    They say the oaks are just too lofty
    And they grab up all the light
    But the oaks can't help their feelings
    If they like the way they're made
    And they wonder why the maples
    Can't be happy in their shade?

    There is trouble in the forest
    And the creatures all have fled
    As the maples scream `oppression!`
    And the oaks, just shake their heads

    So the maples formed a union
    And demanded equal rights
    'The oaks are just too greedy
    We will make them give us light'
    Now theres no more oak oppression
    For they passed a noble law
    And the trees are all kept equal
    By hatchet,
    Axe,
    And saw ...
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  12. #12
    Expires- 8/30/07 KidStatutory's Avatar
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    I've got a song too.

    You're the sunshine after the rain-
    You're the cure against my fear and my pain;
    Cause I'm losin my mind when you're not around,
    It's all (it's all) because of you!

    I'm sure it ties in somehow.


    Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted;
    Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone.


    Paired with: Mex - Eve

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