Gods Existance

[Kirby]

Ok Ed we have been argueing alot over here about God related topics but you are atheist as you have said. So lets stop skating around it and get it done and over with.

My Reasons: Well anyone can point out and say "If god exists then why don't he talk to me?" or simply you can not prove he exists. Niether can you prove that he does not exist. Think about this for a minute for millions for years since human intellagence we have believed in a superior force even neanderthals people that where not humans nor we evolved from have evidence that they had a religion. If that does not say something also ponder the perfectness of out world compared to the rest of the universe first off we are in a habitalble zonefor liquid water not only that but our planet has an ideal ratation so that one side does not fry and the other freeze paired with an exellent atmosphere. Also the moon huge factor maintains ratation and axis without it earths climates would wildly fluxuate every few million years not allowing life to evolve. And the moon is very specail no other planet in out solar system has a planet to moon ratio so big this comes from the a planet crashing into us billions of years ago which rarely happens in systems with planets. Also a lot of other factors that are extremely unlikely for us including galaxy shape other suns radiation length from middle of the galaxy distance from black holes and gas planets location. All of these work out in out favor to create a suprisingly perfect planet with a species of intellgence that arose in an ideal time. Can all of these be coicedental? My opinion no.

[The Editor]

Sure they can. The probability of all those events happening is larger than the number of planets in the universe, and it only had to happen once.

I have two reasons not to believe in God. The first is the problem of suffering, and the second is that God is not necessary for the universe or anything within it to exist, and there is no evidence for his existence.

[God]

the thing that makes that argument dumb is that the world isn't even close to perfectly designed to fit humans needs when the entire argument is that things appear to be just TOO good/conducive to life to happen by coincidence.

[leo33wii]

If you account for memes, then yes God does exist.
God is an idea that evolves in the human mind, which is then passed to other minds. Kinda like bacteria.

As you could probably conclude, ideas are not living, but they are real and something. Ideas are information. Well, what is information?
Look at your computer, it uses bits: 1's and 0's to create images and music and more! But the On's and Off's aren't what really make these things happen, it's the information. And God being and idea, which IS information, makes him exist.

[The Editor]

When we ask if God exists we mean as a physical presence outside the universe. By your definition unicorns, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Cthulhu, Bigfoot, the T Virus, Superman and Mr Hyde also exist.

[leo33wii]

When we ask if God exists we mean as a physical presence outside the universe. By your definition unicorns, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Cthulhu, Bigfoot, the T Virus, Superman and Mr Hyde also exist.

duh, how else would explain the dead unicorns!

[The Editor]

Gasp!

[Kirby]

bigfoot does exist but that is an aguement for another thread

[Qoorl]

Mage: The Acsension covers this nicely... heck it's even the basis for my friend's self inflicted religion - AMalgamated Mysticism.

The point is belief...In Mage, reality is subjective. Anyone with sufficient willpower can alter reality. It's also ccemeted with concensus. Because people believe the world works a certain way. It does. Therefore, in the Dark Ages on back, Magical was very powerful because the superstition of the entire world made it malleable, people believe these things could happen and so they do. During the rennasaince, several groups of Mages felt that mages the world over were basically selfish. they horded magical knowledge and reality warping power when it should be controlled and distributed to the world. And so the Order of Reason was founded. They basically began to make magical devices that anyone could use, and codify magic into laws that they were able to "prove" giving birth to Science. As belief in their paradigm spread, the concesus hardened around it. In the modern world of the Mage game.. Magic is hard to use, but the Order of Reason- now the Technocracy, is powerful They control the very concept of ideas and they wipe out anything that shouldn;t exist like Vampires and other Mages.

This kind of got off on a tangent, but it's an awesome idea.

[The Editor]

I think I may have heard of that game. It's an RP like D&D, right? Core mechanics, I mean.

[Kirby]

Qoorl this is an odd thing for you but still

W...T...F...

[leo33wii]

I believe that the universe began from chaos. Then a forces entered our universe and caused the big bang.
These forces enjoy creating things and because there has to be an equal or greater opposite reaction to these forces, evil is defined as anything that would prevent life/living/experience.
Emotions is a good thing, it helps humans experience life. I also believe in a god-type within our self, part Hinduism if you prefer to say.

These forces were personified by the Greeks. That is why I worship them and believe in them because I can see and feel things that few people can.
I can see entities and communicate with them. There are other people who I found that claim similar experiences close to mine. That is why I believe certain things.
Paganism/Wicca use observation of nature and other senses to confirm our beliefs.

[The Editor]

Personal testimony is strange evidence. It's very convincing to the person testifying, but is easily dismissed by others because it cannot be independently verified.

[Qoorl]

Go to bed Kirby, the adults are talking. Mechanics are different, in that it's a lot simpler, there's not exactly a concept of levelling up, and the dice mechanics are... better for a lot of things, but yeah, it is an RPG. It makes for a LOT of good discussion and Debate. The Traditions want their to be Magic... for a variety of reasons...Free Will, believe that things will be better if people see things their way etc. They're the default protagonists, but their hubris is a big flaw. Many of them want Magic for the Superior. The people that see their way. The Technocracy seems to hold Humanity in it's best interests and they're completely playable... but they control and mislead humanity as well. And by taking command of everything....enforcing laws, stomping out certain creative practices, even erasing memories to uphold their view of the Natural Order... are they any better than the Tradition mages?

[Kirby]

Actually the singluar point of the big bang was expanded by either
1. Parallel universal impact
2. All 4 universal forces where on weak and strong nuclear force and magitism and gravity combined then gravity spilt off causing a darastic chain reaction

[The Editor]

It sounds fun

[Kirby]

[Qoorl]

Oh it is... basically you have to devise some sort of belief system of how the reality secretly works. Ie. You believe that everything has a specific True Name and by manipulating those Names you can alter the things they Name, Or discarded Psuedo Science, or even Voodoo, petitioning the spirits that govern the world's workings to change it for you. That's how you DO you magic. You can;t do anything your belief system wouldn't allow. I.e. a Voodoo guy couldn't throw a fireball from nothing... and a Kaballistic Herbrew sorcerer wouldn;t be able to build a Time Machine that runs on Aether particles. When a Mage does something that goes against reality... Ie. If it doesn't look like it could happen in the real world... then Paradox backlashes... basically Reality bitch slapping someone for violating it. Paradox backlashes are usually tailored to the caster and the effect that triggered the backlash but they can range from anywhere to the spell backlashing or some sort of horrible fortune (The Rule of Three for a wiccan spellcaster for example) all the way up to Reality taking the Mage out of it entirely for a timeout...

[The Editor]

I really do believe that I've heard of this game before. I seem to remember a friend telling me about those backlashes.

[Qoorl]

You'd most definately prefer it to Vampire which is heavily rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs...

[The Editor]

I have nothing against beliefs in a game context. That'd be like objecting to Warhammer because of Chaos.

[Qoorl]

Chaos is the DEVIL! Vampire is much more limiting than Mage. Werewolf is sort of a midway between the two, but it rules because of awesomeocity.

[The Editor]

Strangely enough Warriors of Chaos are my favourite army in Warhammer

I'd probably end up being a Tech.

[Qoorl]

That's what I figured. the ability to manipulate reality has to be codified and the game mechanics for it are 9 spheres. Varying mastery over each sphere lets you do different things. For example the first level of Forces allows a character to percieve forces... x-rays, heat, electricity for example... while higher levels allow him to control them, causing a loose wire to send out a shock or even and emp pulse... and even higher levels allow transmutation of forces... changing cold into electricity for example.

The Nine Spheres are:

Correspondence (space)
Entropy (Fate and decay)
Forces (Heat, Light, etc.)
Life
Matter
Mind
Spirit (Or Dimensional Sciences for you Techs)
Prime (the sphere of creation... allows you to manipulate other spheres from nothing... making light where there's no source for it for example)
Time

[Kirby]

ok qoorl please tell me the are you talking about cuz it just seems insane to me and I know that you are not insane and I just can not wrap my head around it