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Thread: Scientia.

  1. #101
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    about the universe accelerating:

    aside from the universe having some sort of 'other' mysterious energetic force, is it at all possible that matter is still accelerating FROM the initial 'bang'? Of course it was billions of years ago, but isn't it possible the universe is still accelerating just from that "blast" and since it was so powerful, it hasn't had time to slow down yet, or 'expend' all its initial energy?
    who says the energy won't last forever, for energy is neither created nor destroyed
    Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."

  2. #102
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    It can be converted to heat, though, rendering it useless, right?

  3. #103
    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    Id like to bring up a debate about dark energy, yes the universe is accelerating for some unforeseen reason, but you don't make up another force off the fly to explain it. It annoys me how other theories against it are rarely publicized. For example there is one theory that states that some sort of release of energy in out section of the universe created an outward pressure wave that is moving everything apart, and because of the scale of this wave, we can't notice a difference. Sure its just an unproven hypothesis, but its just are reasonable as dark energy.

  4. #104
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Id like to bring up a debate about dark energy, yes the universe is accelerating for some unforeseen reason, but you don't make up another force off the fly to explain it. It annoys me how other theories against it are rarely publicized. For example there is one theory that states that some sort of release of energy in out section of the universe created an outward pressure wave that is moving everything apart, and because of the scale of this wave, we can't notice a difference. Sure its just an unproven hypothesis, but its just are reasonable as dark energy.
    How would the physical wave exist without a medium?

  5. #105
    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solly View Post
    How would the physical wave exist without a medium?
    Energy wave I think, I am not an expert in the theory though so don't take my word for it. I just think it deserves more recognition.

  6. #106
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    about the universe accelerating:

    aside from the universe having some sort of 'other' mysterious energetic force, is it at all possible that matter is still accelerating FROM the initial 'bang'? Of course it was billions of years ago, but isn't it possible the universe is still accelerating just from that "blast" and since it was so powerful, it hasn't had time to slow down yet, or 'expend' all its initial energy?
    that would be a logic reason for the universe still EXPANDING but not for the universe's expansion ACCELERATING. the rate at which the universe is expanding is increasing. its speeding up. the only way to accelerate a body, ie increase its velocity, is to supply energy to the body through force. if we assume that the universe is a closed system with no interaction from forces or objects outside it, then it is impossible for external force to act on it at random times or energy to somehow lay dormant and then suddenly start affecting things. the ONLY source of energy for the universe was the initial big bang, which was billions of years ago.the fact that the universe is accelerating implies that there is some sort of force that is STILL providing the universe with enough energy to actually INCREASE the rate of expansion. if it was only residual then the universe would have started slowing down since right after the big bang, since the energy would have slowly been used up. but this is like there are multiple big bangs going on right now, with each one providing more energy and thus increasing the rate of expansion. thats why its so bizarre.

    one variation of string theory tries to explain this by making the claim that the universe is NOT a closed system and that our universe is wedged between other universes of higher dimensions like a slice of bread in a loaf. gravity is said to be able to freely move between universes and the cause of our increasing expansion is said to be due to gravitational effects of the other universes. which sounds pretty cool but unfortunately this, and basically all of string theory, hasnt gotten much steam because, while these predictions may be mathematically sound, none of them can be verified by experiment.

  7. #107
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Id like to bring up a debate about dark energy, yes the universe is accelerating for some unforeseen reason, but you don't make up another force off the fly to explain it. It annoys me how other theories against it are rarely publicized. For example there is one theory that states that some sort of release of energy in out section of the universe created an outward pressure wave that is moving everything apart, and because of the scale of this wave, we can't notice a difference. Sure its just an unproven hypothesis, but its just are reasonable as dark energy.
    dark energy isnt a theory or another force. its just a placeholder term used to describe WHATEVER it is thats causing the universe to accelerate.

  8. #108
    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    Most of the science shows I watch advocate it as a new force.

  9. #109
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    either youre dumb or the science shows you watch are

  10. #110
    In reverie, I felt you holding me. Dogar The Brave's Avatar
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    I'm too skeptical to be a scientist.

    Your an absolutely wonderful man, any girl that is yours is lucky and I know that from personal experience. ~KMT

  11. #111
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    you wouldnt be skeptical if you were a scientist

  12. #112
    In reverie, I felt you holding me. Dogar The Brave's Avatar
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    Chicken or the egg.

    Your an absolutely wonderful man, any girl that is yours is lucky and I know that from personal experience. ~KMT

  13. #113
    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
    either youre dumb or the science shows you watch are
    your calling the science channel and nova dumb


  14. #114
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    its probably just you

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
    that would be a logic reason for the universe still EXPANDING but not for the universe's expansion ACCELERATING. the rate at which the universe is expanding is increasing. its speeding up. the only way to accelerate a body, ie increase its velocity, is to supply energy to the body through force. if we assume that the universe is a closed system with no interaction from forces or objects outside it, then it is impossible for external force to act on it at random times or energy to somehow lay dormant and then suddenly start affecting things. the ONLY source of energy for the universe was the initial big bang, which was billions of years ago.the fact that the universe is accelerating implies that there is some sort of force that is STILL providing the universe with enough energy to actually INCREASE the rate of expansion. if it was only residual then the universe would have started slowing down since right after the big bang, since the energy would have slowly been used up. but this is like there are multiple big bangs going on right now, with each one providing more energy and thus increasing the rate of expansion. thats why its so bizarre.

    one variation of string theory tries to explain this by making the claim that the universe is NOT a closed system and that our universe is wedged between other universes of higher dimensions like a slice of bread in a loaf. gravity is said to be able to freely move between universes and the cause of our increasing expansion is said to be due to gravitational effects of the other universes. which sounds pretty cool but unfortunately this, and basically all of string theory, hasnt gotten much steam because, while these predictions may be mathematically sound, none of them can be verified by experiment.
    reading over this post it seems kinda convoluted so just think about it this way

    imagine yourself throwing a ball into the air. the event of you throwing the ball is analogous to the big bang and the ball rising is analogous to the expansion of the universe. the laws of physics would dictate that the ball would slow down after a certain while, stop and then fall back to earth or, if youre superman, move fast enough that gravity cant slow it down enough for it to fall back within the time frame of the experiment (like a rocket). now imagine that the ball starts accelerating instead. it keeps moving up faster and faster unperturbed by the gravity of the earth. its a weird, inexplicable scenario but that is essentially what is happening with the expansion of the universe.

  16. #116
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    yes but the ball is at one point accelerating, very close to the beginning when it was first "infused" with energy. im saying, what if the "bang" was so incredible that matter is still in that very initial state when it FIRST starts accelerating.

  17. #117
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    the only time the ball is accelerating upwards is while it is still in the hand. the moment it leaves the hand, gravity becomes the only force acting on it and it decelerates. so if youre going with that analogy, your hypothesis implies that the bang is not yet over and the force that is being exerted by the bang is accelerating the universe. its an interesting way to think about the dilemma but the problem is that if the bang was indeed still going on, the universe would not be as cool as it is today (about 2 degrees above absolute zero). the energy required to accelerate the expansion of the universe is immense and if that energy existed in the forms that we are familiar with (heat, etc) the universe would still be searing hot. obviously we dont observe such an excess of energy because we wouldnt exist otherwise, and the fact that we cant observe it warrants the use of 'dark' in 'dark energy'.

  18. #118
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    i smile every time the word bang is mentioned while reading the above post

  19. #119
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    slightly related: i just found my dk space encyclopaedia which i got when i was 8. its probably the book ive read the most number of times.

  20. #120
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Energy wave I think, I am not an expert in the theory though so don't take my word for it. I just think it deserves more recognition.
    wtf does this even mean

  21. #121
    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    idk this

    "Recent research by Christos Tsagas, a cosmologist at Aristotle University of Thessaloniki in Greece, has argued that it's likely that the accelerated expansion of the universe is an illusion caused by the relative motion of us to the rest of the universe. The peer reviewed journal entry cites data showing that the 2.5 billion ly wide region of space we are inside of is moving very quickly relative to everything around it. If his theory is confirmed, then dark energy would not exist (but the "dark flow" still might). His research can be found in the journal, Physical Review D."

  22. #122
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    ENERGY WAVE

  23. #123
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Pokemon moves cause universal expansion, obviously

  24. #124
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    why is our part of the universe moving quickly

  25. #125
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    but getting back to hubble. what he discovered was that not only were there other galaxies, but the stars in other galaxies were highly red-shifted. furthermore, the stars in galaxies further away were MORE red-shifted than the stars in relatively closer galaxies. and if this phenomenon was only limited to a certain patch of sky then it would've been mind-blowing enough, but this red-shifting of stars in other galaxies was observed everywhere. in every region of the three hundred and sixty degrees of space that surrounds the earth, galaxies were found to be moving away from us. either our galaxy smells really bad OR the universe is expanding like a three dimensional analogue of a balloon. this may seem like a common fact now but back in the 1920s it was astonishing, and it completely revolutionised our picture of the universe.
    theres an interesting point here that i forgot to mention. when einstein was formulating his theory of general relativity, he found that his original equations did not predict a static universe i.e. a universe that is not expanding or contracting. to fix this supposed error, he fucked around with his equations and added a new variable called a 'cosmological constant' that made the universe static. however after hubble announced his discoveries, einstein disowned the cosmological constant and later called it his 'biggest blunder', since he thought he could've predicted an expanding universe from his original equations alone before hubble observed it. HOWEVER since the discovery that the universe was accelerating in the late 1990s there has been renewed interest in using the cosmological constant to account for the universe's acceleration and dark matter (which i might talk about later).

    yet another anecdote proving the near infallibility of maths when it comes to describing the world around us.

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