I'm up waay too late

[Pants]

hey, speaking of santa and horrid violence, did either of you see the seth macfarline christmas special?

dude... the family guy one was utterly disturbing and unfunny... while the underdog, american dad, was hilarious and awesome.

WTF

[pichubro]

you know, St. Nicolas was traditionally seen as a colleague to the devil.

and Santa = Satan if you scramble the letters.

and in eastern European traditions Santa Claus was seen as similar to Odin and therefore his sled was pulled by Sleipnir.

[pichubro]

why do you guys post so fast

[trixie]

Because there's not much else to do

[trixie]

you know, St. Nicolas was traditionally seen as a colleague to the devil.

Why is he a "Saint" then?

[pichubro]

maybe i'm just slow

[trixie]

or sleepy

[Pants]

you know, St. Nicolas was traditionally seen as a colleague to the devil.

and Santa = Satan if you scramble the letters.

and in eastern European traditions Santa Claus was seen as similar to Odin and therefore his sled was pulled by Sleipnir.

interesting connection...

not to mention, that the original concept of Christoph Claus was an image of a german in the late 30's, early 40's... (as marketed by the coca cola corperation)

who else was a famous, propaganda-filling, german man at about that time?

[trixie]

The historical St. Nicholas was Greek.

[pichubro]

Why is he a "Saint" then?

because people said so i think

[trixie]

Why would people who associate him with the devil then call him a saint..? Hmm..

[trixie]

One story tells of a poor man with three daughters. In those days a young woman's father had to offer prospective husbands something of value—a dowry. The larger the dowry, the better the chance that a young woman would find a good husband. Without a dowry, a woman was unlikely to marry. This poor man's daughters, without dowries, were therefore destined to be sold into slavery. Mysteriously, on three different occasions, a bag of gold appeared in their home-providing the needed dowries. The bags of gold, tossed through an open window, are said to have landed in stockings or shoes left before the fire to dry. This led to the custom of children hanging stockings or putting out shoes, eagerly awaiting gifts from Saint Nicholas. Sometimes the story is told with gold balls instead of bags of gold. That is why three gold balls, sometimes represented as oranges, are one of the symbols for St. Nicholas. And so St. Nicholas is a gift-giver.

One of the oldest stories showing St. Nicholas as a protector of children takes place long after his death. The townspeople of Myra were celebrating the good saint on the eve of his feast day when a band of Arab pirates from Crete came into the district. They stole treasures from the Church of Saint Nicholas to take away as booty. As they were leaving town, they snatched a young boy, Basilios, to make into a slave. The emir, or ruler, selected Basilios to be his personal cupbearer, as not knowing the language, Basilios would not understand what the king said to those around him. So, for the next year Basilios waited on the king, bringing his wine in a beautiful golden cup. For Basilios' parents, devastated at the loss of their only child, the year passed slowly, filled with grief. As the next St. Nicholas' feast day approached, Basilios' mother would not join in the festivity, as it was now a day of tragedy. However, she was persuaded to have a simple observance at home—with quiet prayers for Basilios' safekeeping. Meanwhile, as Basilios was fulfilling his tasks serving the emir, he was suddenly whisked up and away. St. Nicholas appeared to the terrified boy, blessed him, and set him down at his home back in Myra. Imagine the joy and wonderment when Basilios amazingly appeared before his parents, still holding the king's golden cup. This is the first story told of St. Nicholas protecting children—which became his primary role in the West.

.

[Pants]

thats a different adaptation of the man. there have been many different notions of his origins. Nicholas was a turkish gift-giving god-fearing person.

while Kris Kringle (sometimes listed as Kriss Kringle) is a name used in the United States and may refer to:
Christkind or Christkindl, the Austrian and Bavarian Christmas gift-bringer
Santa Claus, by assimilation in The United States of the separate German tradition


there is no clear definition other than the one the coke corporation marketed onto us.

[pichubro]

A quote for your quote!

According to myths dating to the beginning of the 19th century, Saint Nicholas (Sinterklaas) operated by himself or in the companionship of a devil. Having triumphed over evil, it was said that on Saint Nicholas Eve, the devil was shackled and made his slave. A devil as a helper of the Saint can also still be found in Austrian Saint Nicholas tradition in the character of Krampus.

Some sources indicate that in Germanic Europe, Zwarte Piet originally was such an enslaved devil forced to assist his captor, but the character emerged in the 19th century within the Netherlands as a companion of Saint Nicholas resembling a Moor.[1] Saint Nicholas is said to come from Turkey. The relation of Zwarte Piet with Haji Firuz is incredibly close, Haji Firuz is a traditional herald of Nowruz, the Persian New Year celebration, exactly black in the face and comes with Amoo Nowruz a white beared old man who brings gifts for the children counter part of Western Santa.

The introduction of this new Zwarte Piet was paired with a change in the attitude of the Sinterklaas character that was often shown as being quite rough against bad children himself and thought unbefitting of a Bishop by teachers and priests. Soon after the introduction of Zwarte Piet as Sinterklaas' helper, both characters adapted to a softer character.[2]

Until the second half of the 20th century, Saint Nicholas' helper was not too bright, in line with the old colonial traditions. Once immigration started from the former colonised countries Zwarte Piet became a much more respected assistant of Saint Nicholas, who is often a bit inattentive.[3]

According to the more modern Saint Nicholas legend, a Zwarte Piet is a servant who accompanies Saint Nicholas on his holiday travels. In some versions, it is alleged that Saint Nicholas once liberated a young slave named Peter, who decided to serve Nicholas (as a free servant) rather than enjoy liberty alone. Zwarte Piet is today commonly depicted as a black person in the colorful pantaloons, feathered cap and ruffles of a Renaissance European page, a tradition based on a single illustration in a book published in 1850.

Zwarte Pieten are often portrayed as mischievous but rarely a mean-spirited characters. Parents used to tell their children that if they have been good, a Zwarte Piet will bring them gifts and sweets, but if they have been bad, a Piet will scoop them up, stuff them in his huge dufflebag and spirit them away to Spain as punishment. Though this is increasingly uncommon nowadays, he can still carry some type or scourge (called a "roe"), especially a a bundle of birch branches, which could be used for birching or in modern words, to chastise children who have been too naughty to deserve presents. The character is believed to have been derived from pagan traditions of evil spirits. Also told for decades is a story that the Zwarte Pieten are black because of chimney soot and/or in mockery of the darker Spanish occupiers of the Low Countries in centuries past.

The traditions of the Saint Nicholas feast are in part at least of medieval origin, if not much older. St. Nicholas himself, as described in the Dutch tradition shows some similarities to Wuotan/Odin, which suggests that the duo have a pre-Christian origin. Possible precursors to Zwarte Piet can be found in Odin's ravens Hugin and Munin.

[trixie]

Christmas has so much... depth to it

[Pants]

THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT INFLUENCES TO THE ORIGINS OF THE AMERICAN CLAUS, WE GET IT!

now lets all sing happy birthday to santachrist!

[trixie]

A zwarte piet :0

[pichubro]

it's probably racist.

[trixie]

Zwarte pieten carry ROES!

[Pants]

Saint Father Christopher Zwarte Nicholas Claus Christmas III¾

[trixie]

How on earth would the ¾ be possible?

[Pants]

well, he's magic obviously?


PS: how come in christmas specials, it says he goes all around the world giving presents to every child on the planet when only about 1/14th of the world's population is christian, and 1/9th of those don't celebrate the gift part of christmas?

thats like 1/126th of the planet



FAAAAIIILLLLLLLLL

[Kirby]

Saint Nick was a real saint. He was a rich guy that threw balls of gold into the windows of women so that they would not be prostitutes. His giving got mixed in by the church with Oddin in Germany and thus Santa was born.

This kinda stuff ain't new. Christmas occurs on the winter soltus the shortest day of the year where Germanic people would sacrefice to the sun so it would return because to there point of view every year the sun tried to leave and that where winter comes from. The church simply replaced sun with son. And the reason for Chatholics not eating meat on Friday was only the Popes way to simulate the fishing economy.

[ShadowRaven]

This kinda stuff ain't new. Christmas occurs on the winter soltus the shortest day of the year where Germanic people would sacrefice to the sun so it would return because to there point of view every year the sun tried to leave and that where winter comes from. The church simply replaced sun with son. And the reason for Chatholics not eating meat on Friday was only the Popes way to simulate the fishing economy.

RUINED FOREVER

[Solly]

*solstice