I saw this in a store the other day.

[TeenageAngst]

Words... cannot describe.

[ShadowRaven]

Burn.

[Pants]

time

thing

of

best

all

[Teresa]

That.


Is actually a fantastic viewpoint.

[TeenageAngst]

I used to be completely indifferent on abortion. Then people learned my stance on the subject and decided to try *hard* to convert me. Ever since I've been staunchly pro-choice, not because I like abortion but because I hate anti-abortionists that much.

[YellowBrand]

i remember a quebecer humorist having said something along the lines of "isn't it funny that most people who are against abortion should have been aborted in the first place?" or something like that.

[Rayne]

That.


Is actually a fantastic viewpoint.

i hope youre being sarcastic

[Teresa]

Well, it's not a terrible one. >_>

I'm really on the fence when it comes to abortion, but that statement makes you think a little bit. I mean, it's not like a fetus or baby could tell you what they want, but by the time they are old enough to contemplate the question, it's, well, out of the question. No one wants to have been aborted, but at the same time you don't have the ability to determine yourself if you should have been, at any age.

I unno, it's a fantastic shirt, and I stick by what I said.

[Rayne]

the viewpoint makes no sense, has little to do with what youve posted (which itself is a weak argument) and the very reason teenageangst made this thread was to point out how stupid pro-lifers like reagan are

[God]

its one of those quotes that sounds impressive at first, but lets you filter how stupid people are by seeing how long it takes them to realize its actually a stupid argument after you hear it

[Kirby]

lol Regan

[KhaosMonsterEnergy]

Ive noticed everyone that against abortion have already been born -khaosmonsterenergy

[God]

hahaha

[Bluebabe kitten]

Ive noticed everyone that against abortion have already been born -khaosmonsterenergy

True.

[Kirby]

No there undead monsters those radical christian groups.

[Teresa]

the viewpoint makes no sense, has little to do with what youve posted (which itself is a weak argument) and the very reason teenageangst made this thread was to point out how stupid pro-lifers like reagan are

Pro-lifers can be retarded sometimes, but that doesn't mean you can't thoughtfully examine all sides, or all views. At the sake of taking this somewhere else, what are your views Rayne? What argument/reasoning do you stick by? Really, I would like to know. As I said earlier, I'm neither, because something like abortion isn't black or white to me; there are always exceptions to every argument.

[Solly]

I was reading through this thread with a dull look on my face until Khaos made me smile.

[KhaosMonsterEnergy]

its what i do

[Kirby]

Pro-lifers can be retarded sometimes, but that doesn't mean you can't thoughtfully examine all sides, or all views. At the sake of taking this somewhere else, what are your views Rayne? What argument/reasoning do you stick by? Really, I would like to know. As I said earlier, I'm neither, because something like abortion isn't black or white to me; there are always exceptions to every argument.

No. I found an exeption. This arguement.

mind freak!

[Rayne]

Pro-lifers can be retarded sometimes, but that doesn't mean you can't thoughtfully examine all sides, or all views. At the sake of taking this somewhere else, what are your views Rayne? What argument/reasoning do you stick by? Really, I would like to know. As I said earlier, I'm neither, because something like abortion isn't black or white to me; there are always exceptions to every argument.

disregarding that this really has nothing to do with anything, im pro-choice

[Pants]

abortion should definitely be limited to the most complicated situations, and not used to get out of responsibility.

there have to be limitations to this touchy subject.

now honestly, if a mother doesn't want to have her child, most people would say that she wouldn't make a good parent for the child anyway and it is a good thing to have it die, but why then doesn't she have the child, then give it to child services?

[Teresa]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Pants, especially in the case of the younger teenagers today that want to have sex and haven't even completed Biology in High School yet. Let that girl give birth, so the pain will remind her to be more responsible with her decisions, and adopt the child out. Some will say why, when it's just another leech on societies resources, but that doesn't mean that child won't grow up to be a productive member of society and eventually put back into the system what they used up. If they don't, well, that's just life. It's not perfect. Even people who were 'planned' sometimes grow up to be failures. :/

disregarding that this really has nothing to do with anything, im pro-choice

Well, it does, if just a tiny bit. Your views on abortion helped formulate your opinion on the shirt. Or something like that. Made sense in my mind. I'll shut up now.

[Kirby]

there should be and is a set time limit

most abortions occur when the thing is a fetus I doesn't even have a brain or heart yet

its not like where aborting children that are actually thinking being unlike later on when they suck thumbs and shit

[Pants]

kirbx, you rueen everthing.

and teresa, its good to find someone with some sense about them for once

[Rayne]

Now my hand has 23 pairs of chromosomes. Therefore it is 'human', and keep in mind that I'm using the term as most pro-lifers do: very loosely. My hand is also 'alive'. Let me take you back to the seven signs of life:

1. Growth
2. Stimulus Response
3. Metabolism
4. Homeostasis
5. Reproduction
6. Mutation
7. Autonomous Motion

I'm not going to go on a tangent to try and prove my hand fits into every single criteria. Many of them are debatable; the list itself is a horrible indicator of life. But contrast my hand's results with this test to the foetus' during the first and second trimesters. You'll find that the results of the latter and former are easily interchangable. I could extrapolate on this further if you like.

Now you may wonder: where exactly then do my hand and the foetus differ? In truth, they don't. My hand is to my body as the foetus is to the mother. The first cannot survive when remove from the second. I could very well cut off my hand right now, and neither you nor anyone else can tell me otherwise because masochism isn't nearly as much of an issue as abortion is.

Now this begs the question: if the foetus and my hand are so strikingly similar then what's the fuss about; why does no-one protest about self-mutilation the way they do about abortion? For the answer I'm going to have to go to where your arguments and your entire stance stems from. You're giving the foetus personhood, sentience, humanity, a 'soul', blah blah whatever you want to call it. Why? Don't know, don't care. Maybe it's because of the misguided sentimentality you feel towards a clump of cells.

Fact of the matter is the foetus does not have any sense of individuality at its early stages of development simply because it does not have any organ to process its sentience. When pro-choicers revoke the foetus of any rights and call it 'not human' what they mean is this: my sixteen month old cousin cries when hungry, sleeps, gets up, laughs when I make a face; a foetus does not. It can't. It's basically a vegetable. It's in the third trimester that the foetus develops brain cells and starts developing its sentience, the point where your entire stance gains a semblance of validity. And the third trimester is the period where even the most dedicated pro-choices stop condoning abortion.

Of course you could very well bring up the 'potentially developed human' argument as nearly everyone does when I present them with this argument, but as you or some other enlightened individual said during the course of this debate, 'we are not looking at what could be, we are looking at what is'.

posted this on another forum almost two years ago