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Thread: Unions

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    You're not following the logic. We're not talking about a sudden and drastic cut in the number of private employees. It would be a gradual shift: a slowly decrease in the number of people in private jobs while increasing production, and a steady increase in public jobs in tune with the increased tax revenue.
    Communism doesn't work in practice either, but that doesn't stop it being a good idea. An idea you can never hope to achieve, but still a damn good idea.
    Also: Does pouring more slowly into a glass somehow give it more capacity?

    There's no requirement to be unionised in England. And the London underground unions do a great job of demonstrating how irritating and disruptive an overpowered union can be. Bastards keep striking and refuse to let TFL reduce employees despite them not being needed any more.
    I never said it was legally required, I said it's needed in order to keep the government (yes, the government) socially responsible.

    And, hold on, did you just say employees were getting booted out of the public sector, because there was no capacity?

  2. #52
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    Pouring water into a balloon held in steel container with the air being slowly removed is a more accurate analogy to my proposal.

    Why yes, at the moment there is indeed not enough money, since the Labour party borrowed far too much while supporting the unions so the private sector couldn't possibly match the costs.

    - - -

    I can't help but notice that the problem here is pretty much the same as the problem with communism: it requires people to be more interested in people than the themselves. Unions are in it for themselves. Companies are in it for themselves. Governments are in it for themselves. Everybody cares more about me than us.

  3. #53
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    The way capitalism works is that all parties must keep each other in check by striving for themselves. If there is no union then there is nothing to keep the corporations in check. You're talking in circles.

  4. #54
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    For the last time, I don't want to abolish unions. I want them to have less power. At the moment they have too much power.

  5. #55
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    Unions only make up 30% of the work-force in Canada - fact. I don't know how it is Britain, probably something similar, but unions definitely have as much power as they need.

  6. #56
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    So in your opinion it's perfectly fine to disrupt the lives of millions of people to try and force a company to keep employees they don't need?

  7. #57
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    Ed, I'm not saying whatever you're talking about is justified in itself, but you're being very specific for such a wide topic.

  8. #58
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    It's a prominent example to 10% of the population of England.

  9. #59
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    Yes let's let the other 90% suffer

  10. #60
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    I don't see how curbing the power of unions would spontaneously result in everybody being exploited to hell and back, Mr Slippery-Slope. As I have told you before, I don't want to ban unions. I want to reduce the power they have. Pay attention.

  11. #61
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    Like what? What power would you take away from unions?

  12. #62
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    I'd quite like to limit how many times they can strike and when.

  13. #63
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    That would provide employers with the ability to "out-siege" them.

  14. #64
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    Which would mean the unions have to be more reasonable and start negotiating.

  15. #65
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    Legally unions must negotiate and a mediator must come to the conclusion that negotiations have failed before unions can go on strike.

  16. #66
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    Yes, but what happens is that the union refuses to budge, insisting that nothing changes, and then strike when they don't get their way.

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    Again, legally if the union is being unreasonable and injunction can be made and it can be forced to take the deal.

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    Getting that injunction's going to cost a bit, though, and the public still suffer.

  19. #69
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    An injunction automatically takes place right when it goes to court or negotiations start again.

  20. #70
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    Taking a case to court costs money. And the public still suffers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    Taking a case to court costs money. And the public still suffers.
    Not unless you get a free laywer. Score one for the US constitution.

  22. #72
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    Shame your healthcare system knocks you oh so far back. But this isn't the place for "my country is better than yours". Both are good at different things.

  23. #73
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    It takes money and time, right, which is what encourages unions and employers to come to terms as quickly as possible.

  24. #74
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    No I have to admit our healthcare system is shit. We just have to kill all those crazy puritan desendants over here thats the problem.

  25. #75
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    No it doesn't, Solly. It pressures the company into folding because every day they're losing money. Meanwhile the workers can sit there knowing that if they get fired they can sue for unfair dismissal. It's unbalanced.

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