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Thread: physical delimma

  1. #1
    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    Default physical delimma

    ok, because i believe you guys know a thing or two in comparison to some other's i argue with on the internet, here's my gripe:

    why is it that every major physicist, every internet article, and every guy on the internet who talks about science claim that black holes have INFINITE density? this goes against the entire idea of the conservation of mass. a physical LAW. some people say that its just incredibly massive density, and i can believe and acknowledge that, but infinite density doesn't make any sense to be that popular of a description for even Stephen Hawking to claim. would someone please throw their physics knowledge at this, because its outrageous to claim that a black hole can break a physical law.


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  2. #2
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    delimma

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    cant fix that now rayne. focus on the topic


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    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    black holes don't follow the convervation of mass according to some scientists

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    so wait, are you suggesting that blackholes are supernatural? therefor science has legitimately shown the plausibility of supernatural activity?


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    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    black holes have enormous masses packed into infinitesimally small volumes. general relativity, which is the set of laws relating to macroscopic objects, and quantum mechanics, which is the set of laws which explain subatomic phenomenon, are incompatible with each other. trying to mathematically comprehend whats inside the centre of the black hole with either law individually leads to a mathematical impossibility called a singularity. a black hole isnt the only place where a singularity occurs; another notable singularity is the one at the very early stages of the big bang. there have been numerous attempts to formulate a grand theory combining quantum mechanics and general relativity, a supposed 'theory of everything', that could explain all of the physical phenomenon in the universe, including what happens when a unfathomably huge amount of mass is concentrated in an unfathomably small space. the most ambitious attempt to unify all the laws of the universe has been string theory.

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    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    infinity is mathematically defined as an arbitrarily large number. in the context of a black hole, its arbitrary because we simply dont know what the hell is going on down there other than the fact that the density at the centre of a black hole has a huge, huge value.

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    that's what i thought, but every single celebrity physicist says "infinite density" and it makes me want to deck them for not taking the 3 seconds to say "very huge density" and not look like ancient priests going "oh, the river flows because the water god wishes it" in comparison to "oh a singularity breaks a physical law because... whatever".

    i'm not a physics major, but i know enough to understand the values of large and infinite. fuck media-hyped author scientists.


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  9. #9
    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    and infinity is simply n+1. a value greater than any other value


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  10. #10
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pants View Post
    and infinity is simply n+1. a value greater than any other value
    And infinity is n+1. A value simply greater than any other value.

    I don't always profess my savant language abilities but even sometimes I had to look back and admit I've created a bouncing rhetoric of art.
    Well, I open my eyes and I see things. I've seen spirits moving through the walls. I've seen a vortex coming through the wall. I've seen amorphous little balls of light bouncing all around in the front yard through the window. I've seen giant bugs on the floor. I was in a hotel room in Amarillo, Texas, and all I remember is standing on the bed and seeing the whole wall in front of me filled with lights that were [makes popping sound] popping like popcorn out of the wall. Then I'll wake up and I go "Wow, I was standing on my bed and staring at this wall."

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    In west Philadelphia born and raised...


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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pants View Post
    and infinity is simply n+1. a value greater than any other value
    n+1 is a finite number, a specific one actually

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    its not a number, its a formulaic idea. it specifies the idea that any finite number is smaller than another.

    i should have written it like this:

    n+1=n

    only infinity and negative infinity can be thrown in that equation and be correct, and its the simplest way to describe infinity.


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  14. #14
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    that seems very wrong to me. infinity is not a magnitude, it's a concept. you can only add to a magnitude.

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    although a number is a concept too but you get my meaning

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    if i had a horse for every time i heard that, i'd have 2 horse Pants's Avatar
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    you see mine too though. where the number is infinitely bigger than itself because it has no value. its completely endless and beginning-less, and i used the simplest possible terms to describe the concept.

    but oh well, "infinitely dense" should only be used when referring so someone like me, because then its completely appropriate. now i hate quantum physicists... great.


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  17. #17
    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Well it could also be infinitly dense.
    It could be a hole into another deminsion meaning the whole is as dense as that deminsion is? Who knows. They don't know,
    and there is no way to know outside of it being one of the theories that states that something could go through, and if at the other end intelligent life exists or it eventually manages its way back into the hole it came out of(WHICH ALSO MAKES NO SENSE because if the hole it comes out of is an exist so to say in the same way that we can't escape a black hole it wouldn't be possible to reenter and exiting black hole, however for this theory to be maintained it would be probable that there would be spitting black holes in our deminsion aswell, which there are none(atleast that we've found)) then it would be confirmed, outside of that since its a 1 way trip there is really nothing more than specualation.

    Meaning we don't know. We just know its large, it could be infinite it could be just LARGE we don't know yet. also we don't know if some black holes are infinite density and some others could just be large... that could also be a possibility we don't know though.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

  18. #18
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    i just couldnt read that

  19. #19
    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Just read the last paragraph. It could be simply large, simply infinite, or some could large and some could be infinite. However we will never be able to tell what is what because black holes are a 1 way trip.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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