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Thread: Started Reading the Communist Manifeso

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    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    Default Started Reading the Communist Manifeso

    Very interesting, I had not considered that the Bourgeoisie actually gives the proletariat all the tools it needs to destroy itself. Also I have a greater understanding of how the bourgeoisie was a necessary step from feudalism.

    Also Karl Marx is dead right on conservationism, his words on it are as true as they were when he wrote them, if not more so.

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    In reverie, I felt you holding me. Dogar The Brave's Avatar
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    His writings on the dialectic are quite enticing and in my opinion amazing. His "solutions" and hypothesis on the next step in human history not so much.

    Your an absolutely wonderful man, any girl that is yours is lucky and I know that from personal experience. ~KMT

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogar The Brave View Post
    His writings on the dialectic are quite enticing and in my opinion amazing. His "solutions" and hypothesis on the next step in human history not so much.
    it's hard the assess to more "practical" elements of marxism because marx wrote at a time when the economy and society was radically different from how it is now. most notably it was before the bismarkian welfare state. in the context of when he was writing i dont think he was awfully far off. of course the capitalist welfare state changed everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    it's hard the assess to more "practical" elements of marxism because marx wrote at a time when the economy and society was radically different from how it is now. most notably it was before the bismarkian welfare state. in the context of when he was writing i dont think he was awfully far off. of course the capitalist welfare state changed everything.
    Explain

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celery View Post
    Explain
    marx's conclusion that a proletariat revolution was inevitable is not hard to take seriously considering the state of the economy and society at the time. russia had an actual successful revolution, germany almost did, even into the 20th century there were very violent labor strikes in the US. the powers of the 1800s did not take socialist revolutionaries lightly. working and living conditions really were pretty bad. bismark in germany decided to deal with it by starting social welfare programs, particularly social security type systems and unemployment insurance, instead of trying to crack down on the radical left, and this worked pretty well. it made many labor-based political organizations willing to work within the confines of the capitalist state to gain concessions for workers instead of overthrowing the whole system, which pretty much made marx's predictions of the future irrelevant for the developed world. but i dont think he could very well have foreseen this happening.

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    I believe for communism to truly work you need to have a capitalism to support it. I believe we should make a country where one part is capitalist, and the other part communist, and the people have the right to choose which they want to be in. Also it should be something close to a rep. demo..
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    Gym Assistant King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahWyatt View Post
    I believe for communism to truly work you need to have a capitalism to support it. I believe we should make a country where one part is capitalist, and the other part communist, and the people have the right to choose which they want to be in. Also it should be something close to a rep. demo..
    We had that, it was called East and West Germany, they had a wall, it fell.

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    We had that, it was called East and West Germany, they had a wall, it fell.
    king you don't actually believe the free part of germany supported financially and with direct goods the communist part of germany do you?
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    you become progressively dumber with every post you make

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    LOL NICE COUNTER BRO
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    wyatt a half communist - capitalist system like that I have to admit is pretty silly

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Why? The rich enjoy anything and everything they want(capatlism) however support the poor (government communes) by ensuring everyone who needs/wants a job a job(that pays enough/ gets you enough stuff to support a family). Sounds like a perfect system to me, which would solve most crime/poverty.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    Defenestration is imminent pichubro's Avatar
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    What a wonderful idea. We shall call it socialism.

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    No, that is intermixing the systems within one confind.
    I mean literally having 2 different(the same law wise) societies, but one is capatlist, and the other is a capatalist support commune, all functioning under the same goverment, but abading in two different areas.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    princeso Kirby's Avatar
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    can Rayne or god explain why that is stupid in short elegant words why that is stupid, I don't feel like arguing with wyatt

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    Defenestration is imminent pichubro's Avatar
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    ....

    So...

    combine North and South Korea under one government?

    Wouldn't really work...

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    I'm talking about,like i said to begin with, a rep. demo. Try this with any place that has recources, and is under the peoples controll(not a dictator, not a regime) like canada, U.S., ect.

    There is no reason for it not to work, it has never been tried before. Ever. There are reasons for it to not succeed in geting implemented, but if it were implemented correctly it would 100% work.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    Defenestration is imminent pichubro's Avatar
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    It doesn't work. Why do you think the United States had a civil war -_-

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    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Or Israel with the kibbutzes in the north and metropolitan societies in the south

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    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Works in China with rural communes but capitalist urban areas

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    The singular reason we don't try something like this here is because of the media influence/the rich's power strangle on government and the people. They want to stay rich and not give up as much as they can not have to give up. doing something like this would probably run 10~15% added taxes on the rich and upper middle classes for atleast 5~10 years to get it fully operational, and then past that probably another 5% forever. Thats not something they want to give up to nearly eliminate crime and absolutely eliminate poverty(outside of people who just want to live in poverty(hobos ect.))
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

  22. #22
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    you fucked up elijah

    I vouched for you, and you fucked up

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Thanks for vouching for me, ~.~, but i didn't need/want it. I appreciate it though, really i do. I don't understand how my argument is any less or more valid though.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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    Man Of All Things Merry buckweat's Avatar
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    Because it's fucking retarded. A country under the same government and laws where the rich pay for a Communist society is still just plain socialism, even if all the rich Bourgeois live in the same geographic area. The rich are still being heavily taxed to support the poor. It doesn't matter where they live, the system you described is socialism.
    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    get out of my way kirby, i've got gulags to build.

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    Registered Users Regular ElijahWyatt's Avatar
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    Yes, and whats wrong with socialism? It could easily, easily work without a dicatator in the equation.
    Thats why i've been sure to say REP. DEMO. for the 3rd time. Mixing a rep. demo. with a socialistic society hasn't really been tried. Its always places where theres just a dictator.

    Its also not the same, because in a socialistic society the rich are discouraged from making a bunch of shit, and so are the middle class and upper middle, because they are all under a commune. The value of products deminishes because there is no competition, however in a society that is not all socailised, the majority of people (the people not in poverty) would still enjoy the same level of goods and services, and the people in communes, would be able to not be in poverty anymore, but have to put up with a degraded quailty of goods and services.
    "As for me, all i know is that i know nothing"

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