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Thread: i feel very disconnected from modern times

  1. #51
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    nonsense

  2. #52
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    did we have much in the way of poetry/art/culture before agriculture? has there ever been an epic poem which does not in some way include some very specific reference to farming? my point can be distilled to this: agriculture gives us an inneffable connection to the seasonal cycle, which is crucial to the continuingly healthy production of art. if we stop doing agriculture entirely and let robots do it, we will not have a very healthy sphere of poetry and art.

  3. #53
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    it is arbitrary, i will give you that. but it is certainly not as arbitrary as office spaces, and my point has little to do with the anatomy of human beings

  4. #54
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    did we have much in the way of poetry/art/culture before agriculture? has there ever been an epic poem which does not in some way include some very specific reference to farming? my point can be distilled to this: agriculture gives us an inneffable connection to the seasonal cycle, which is crucial to the continuingly healthy production of art. if we stop doing agriculture entirely and let robots do it, we will not have a very healthy sphere of poetry and art.
    lolwat

  5. #55
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solly View Post
    You can't program a robot to run a farm, but you can program a robot to learn how to run a farm.
    if anything its the other way around

  6. #56
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    did we have much in the way of poetry/art/culture before agriculture? has there ever been an epic poem which does not in some way include some very specific reference to farming? my point can be distilled to this: agriculture gives us an inneffable connection to the seasonal cycle, which is crucial to the continuingly healthy production of art. if we stop doing agriculture entirely and let robots do it, we will not have a very healthy sphere of poetry and art.
    Dude wtf are you talking about. Hunter-gatherer societies kept track of seasonal changes long before agriculture entered the picture. And agriculture is definitely not a precursor to artwork. Unless, of course, you're arguing that more complex societies allow for greater works of art, which kind of makes your point moot anyways.

    And where did you get the idea that robots would create art work? The whole idea is that robots would do things no other human would want to do, whereas I can think a good chunk of the human population would love to have free time to produce art work as they please (including myself). Arguably, the amount of art work would increase with people having more free time and access to better technology, as the trend has been over the last century.

    To argue that art requires an agrarian lifestyle to be produced is a foolish statement that is contradicted by any knowledge of art over the last few centuries. I really hope you're just high as balls or messing with me.

  7. #57
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pichubro View Post
    I don't see the correlation.
    People at the top of the capitalistic game aren't going to favour humans over robots simply because humans can carry out the specific tasks as well or because they add a humane emotional appeal to it; not when it would cost far, far less to just use robots instead.

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    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
    if anything its the other way around
    IDK my computer science, but it's not really difficult to imagine food production (even quality food) being run by robots.

  9. #59
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    Also Hicky what the fuck happened to you on page 3 of this thread?

  10. #60
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    And you ticked my OCD off as well, why did you distinguish poetry as some sort of separate entity to art in your earlier posts? Poetry IS art.

  11. #61
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    the affects of the internet on civilization are nothing compared to what was going on during the modern period (late 19th early 20th century), growing industrialization, political upheaval, the birth of fast international communication, entire fields of study coming into existence, technologies popping up that had hardly been conceived of before, rapidly changing social roles, etc. the internet is basically just an expanded phone/library system. its important but not a revolution for civilization.
    the internet is symptomatic of a broader revolution involving exponential increase of computing power - literally everything you've mentioned has happened in the past 50 years due to this revolution even though we're only in its infancy. to claim that the incredible advances in technology that have been happening in the past few decades havent affected culture is ridiculous.

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    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    it is arbitrary, i will give you that. but it is certainly not as arbitrary as office spaces, and my point has little to do with the anatomy of human beings
    Also, it's definitely just as arbitrary. Agriculture is a culturally learned phenomenon, just like all the other things you're arguing about. You keep making claims about people needing or wanting this or that, when really this desire is culturally rooted, and thus subject to change as technology changes.

  13. #63
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solly View Post
    IDK my computer science, but it's not really difficult to imagine food production (even quality food) being run by robots.
    its a general principle that its far easier to tell a machine what to do directly rather than have it infer how to do things from its stimuli.

  14. #64
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Is it possible that at some point computers might be able to perform more complex tasks through learning, a la Cleverbot (with non-shitty programming)?

  15. #65
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
    the internet is symptomatic of a broader revolution involving exponential increase of computing power - literally everything you've mentioned has happened in the past 50 years due to this revolution even though we're only in its infancy. to claim that the incredible advances in technology that have been happening in the past few decades havent affected culture is ridiculous.
    the modern period brought about a change to pretty much every single cultural and social norm. the internet is influential but it hasnt been transformative.

  16. #66
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    maybe. one of the problems with answering questions like 'is it possible for a computer to think intelligently?' is that we have such a vague idea of what intelligence is. is an intelligent machine one that has the same capabilities as that of a human? there exist computers which can perform a variety of tasks much faster and much more efficiently than humans can (arithmetic) but which are atrocious at things that human children excel at (pattern recognition in images). there are well researched, efficient algorithms designed to get computers to 'learn' specific tasks (such as classifying documents under various genres based on the text in them, which was an assignment i did yesterday) but there is no real answer to whether computers can accomplish the 'holistic learning' that humans are capable of. then again we're trying to accomplish in 40 years what took millions of years to happen to us so id way we've made great progress.

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    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    the modern period brought about a change to pretty much every single cultural and social norm. the internet is influential but it hasnt been transformative.
    It hasn't been influential because it hasn't reached regular usage by the majority population yet. Can you really argue that a tool that allows access to all major information with one google search won't have a significant cultural impact?

  18. #68
    Registered Users Regular Rayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    the modern period brought about a change to pretty much every single cultural and social norm. the internet is influential but it hasnt been transformative.
    thats subjective, but regardless of what your opinion is whats unequivocally true is that the pace of technological progress (including the internet) hasnt plateaued - its increasing exponentially. massive cultural shifts are forthcoming.

  19. #69
    I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it. Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayne View Post
    the internet is symptomatic of a broader revolution involving exponential increase of computing power - literally everything you've mentioned has happened in the past 50 years due to this revolution even though we're only in its infancy. to claim that the incredible advances in technology that have been happening in the past few decades havent affected culture is ridiculous.
    I already posted this post.

  20. #70
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord View Post
    I already posted this post.
    I already posted this "I already posted this post."

  21. #71
    Defenestration is imminent pichubro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord View Post
    People at the top of the capitalistic game aren't going to favour humans over robots simply because humans can carry out the specific tasks as well or because they add a humane emotional appeal to it; not when it would cost far, far less to just use robots instead.
    I still think in the long run a society cannot function with 100% reliance on machines. Maybe 80 or even 90 percent, but not 100. A machine cannot climb ladders to paint the side of a house, or rescue people from a fire. We haven't even invented a robot that can climb stairs. A machine cannot possess judgement, so police forces and judges will still be human; as well as politicians and other seats of power. A machine can only do what it is programmed to do and outside of factories that thrive on a bunch of robots doing a single task over and over again, they are simply not versatile enough to function much anywhere else.

    Though I do enjoy the prospect of self-driving cars. Reduced accident rate and taking a nap on the way to school just seems so nice.

  22. #72
    The One and Only trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pichubro View Post
    A machine cannot climb ladders to paint the side of a house, or rescue people from a fire. We haven't even invented a robot that can climb stairs.
    Minor point, but we CAN build machines and systems to do these things.

    The main point of your post is true though, machines have to be programmed/maintained by humans. I don't know how far in the future we're projecting here, but eventually, at least for the average person, a lot of manual labor/ repetitive tasks will be replaced by the performance of machines and the focus would probably shift toward research, design, creative expression - all the tasks that are important to the society as a whole that cannot be replaced by said machines.
    Originally made by LM:


    ~ I have said nothing because there is nothing I can say that would describe how I feel as perfectly as you deserve it. -- Kyle Schmidt ~

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  23. #73
    This pic is definitely of me!! Solly's Avatar
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    Or, y'know, you could just build a robot with a built-in hydraulic lift

  24. #74
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    of course there has been art in the last couple of centuries, but it's a different kind of art to the kind of art we had when we all tilled our crops which is less specifically connected to a very specific kind of engagement with the natural world.

  25. #75
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    i am not differentiating between art and poetry, i was just emphasising the importance of poetry to my argument.

    To argue that art requires an agrarian lifestyle to be produced is a foolish statement that is contradicted by any knowledge of art over the last few centuries. I really hope you're just high as balls or messing with me.
    of course art doesn't require an agrarian lifestyle to be produced. but my point is that a certain societal connection with agriculture creates a different and more enhanced appreciation of aesthetics and therefore a much different (and in my opinion 'better') notion of aesthetics. and of course i'm not saying that agriculture was a 'precursor' to art, but it certainly spawned poetic genres like pastorals (and, to a lesser extent, epics), a tradition from which poetry today is developed from. we would have (and do have) a different kind of art today because we have to some extent lost the agrarianism of the past, and i see a certain state of complexity as an ideal for a very specific sense of aesthetic in society. is this really controversial?

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