Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Debate: Debating

  1. #1
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default Debate: Debating

    Is it even worth it? Sure we learn things about other perspectives and gain a bit of wisdom, but the other side is seemingly worthless.

    People can sit in rooms (or pseudo rooms such as a forum) and discuss everything they want until the subject becomes stale. The people discussing will be smarter to the world around them, but the subject itself remains unchanged. You can debate on the existence of heaven for 80 years, but you're still going to die and the living will never know the truth. If heaven does exist, who cares. If heaven does not exist, who cares. Keep talking about it, but your talk solves nothing. Exchanging opinions does not perform research. You may research to form an opinion. The street however does not go both ways. Sorry to digress. My point is, DISCUSSING things about heaven won't prove if it's there or not, unless you are discussing science and the like and not your personal views. To me this is a waste of time.

    Debating can be summed up as the process of engaging in a contest of wits in order to establish a superiority to someone else for 1 subject at a time. Only debating in actual practice does not yield that result. Most people are too stubborn or ignorant to admit they're wrong. It seems a waste in all regards. You won't affect subjects, you won't change minds. Why do we do it?

    Even if you do get a rare case and a mind is changed, what's the good? Ok so one person thinks differently. That's not enough to change the world.

    The even fewer cases of people that have a massive change, are usually in positions of power. Political debates don't solve anything. Politicians don't change their views because they were enlightened, they change them to get elected. Regular people like us can debate politics, but nothing changes. It's why i myself try to avoid it as much as i can. Debating on Bush is pointless. There is only one possible truth, and it doesn't matter if we don't know it because it changes nothing. We won't change policy, we won't change what happened.

    One would make the claim that things like the civil rights movements in the 60s were the result of debating minority treatment. I would disagree because what the civil rights did as talking points was nothing. Centuries have had some dissenters on how to treat minorities, it was nothing new. When ACTION was taken is when things were changed.

    To that i say debate solves nothing. Sometimes it can inspire action, but the action is what changes things, not the debating.

    =====

    RULEZ:

    Dunsuk
    Nomodstuff

  2. #2
    Itty Bitty Kitty of DOOM. Peeki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ibkodopolis
    Posts
    9,690

    Default

    Yeah, some people are too stubborn to accept the other side's point of an issue, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

    In my perspective, although the realistic point of a debate may not be realized, rather than change one's perspective, a debate can allow a person to acknowledge concisely of the other's view on the issue. Sure they may deny it or shun it, they still heard it so they have acknowledged it.

    But then, what if they purposely choose not to listen? That overrules the notion of 'acknowledgment'. Thinking again, if they choose not to listen, it just means they listened to it and kept on telling themselves they haven't.

  3. #3
    monkeyvirus
    Guest

    Default

    Surely debates aren't made to make decisions or solve issues, that's not their point. It's a sport, a game, why do you think we have debate teams?

    Debate does nothing practical because if a person simply refuses to listen then there was no point beginning it the first place. In fact the point of a debate is to change the opinion of the audience not your opponent because frankly I've never seen the challanger back down and move over to the other's point of view but the majority of people listening can often be swayed.

    So basically its a waste of time to have a private debate because it just wont do anything, moreover simply acknowledging that somebody disagrees with you is not really the most productive thing in the world.

    Maybe the action wouldnt be inspired without the debate therefore the debate is key to the whole process dont you think? Debates are important because they get people to notice and think about issues to that goal they are rather successful and reall intellectual debates are wonderful to hear. Its an excercise of the human mind the reason people philosophise its quite true philosophy has no answers but we do it all the same its like a game of chess there's no point but we enjoy the mental work out.

    Really debates are fun for the debators and change the minds of the listeners

  4. #4
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    K now someone say something i haven't already said in the initial post

  5. #5
    monkeyvirus
    Guest

    Default

    um ur saying that debating is pointless, or do i have that wrong?

    so i told u exactly why it isnt, surely thats different?

  6. #6
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    i gave both sides of the argument and was hoping for something i haven't thought of, but i can't seem to get that. i'm not going to sit here and argue language with people instead of points beyond this post addressing that concern. don't take it up the ass.

  7. #7
    Advanced Trainer
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    7,585

    Default

    FM, were you in the Debate team in highschool?

  8. #8
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    Fuck no. I'm too good for them.

  9. #9
    Advanced Trainer
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    7,585

    Default

    I'm taking public speaking which follows into debate. Maybe I'll learn something useful.

  10. #10
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    True pro's don't need it.

  11. #11
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    classified
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    Arguing has a point. Without arguments there would be no disagreements with out disagreements there would be no discrepancies withoutdiscrepancies there would not be opinions.

    Basicly arguing is the only way to end a disagreement, and all people have an opinion of their own, if all people have different opinions there is bound to be arguments and argument settle disagreements.
    Greatness Reincarnated

  12. #12
    Erebussoul
    Guest

    Default

    I think that this is best summed up by one of my high school english teachers...I hated her so this may be the only qoute you'll find from her...anyways she said to us all when we were making speeches for persuasive writing, "You aren't going to change my mind, you probably won't even make a dent, but the point of persuasion isn't always to change the way someone thinks. If you're speech makes someone think to themselves 'hmm I never thought of it that way' then you were successful." to me that's basically the point of debating, it isn't that the other person agrees with you at the end, just that they know something new now.

  13. #13
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    Her quote was always what i thought debating was about, to gain understanding.

    HOWEVER my question remains. Is debating even worth it? All it does is serve as self satisfaction, nothing more.

  14. #14
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jimmy chow View Post
    Arguing has a point. Without arguments there would be no disagreements with out disagreements there would be no discrepancies withoutdiscrepancies there would not be opinions.

    Basicly arguing is the only way to end a disagreement, and all people have an opinion of their own, if all people have different opinions there is bound to be arguments and argument settle disagreements.
    The first actual attempt to answer my question, thank you. You also make a good point.

  15. #15
    Erebussoul
    Guest

    Default

    I feel that debating has a major point, maybe less so in our time because of the need to be politically correct all the time, however the point of debating is to stimulate new ideas. True debate isn't just people standing up and stating stale facts, a true debater will present new, surprising details to his opponent in order to counter any new, surprising details that the opponent may in turn bring against him. In this way debates can inspire new research into many fields or new policies, even changes to old policies. Heck this country was founded on debates, though we seem to have forgotten that. I mean the constitution wasn't written by one man, or even a group of men with similar opinions. Each man had his own agenda, and his own ideas to make this country the best they thought it could be. So in answer to your question, debate has, possibly, the greatest function, to stimulate change in varying ways.

  16. #16
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    I'd love to agree with you, i really would. It's a good point but it's barely off. Debating itself solves nothing. Occasionally it spawns ACTION and that's how we get america being created, civil rights etc. Never in history has anything substantial happened from people sitting in a room exchanging ideas. The minor occurances it happens, people aren't changing their minds for the good of all. They're doing it for self preservation. They're called politicians.

  17. #17
    Erebussoul
    Guest

    Default

    Touche, but in some roundabout way debate causes action, if only by forcing those in a debate to resort to simple self-preservation, which I completely agree with, but in truth if there were no debate then that self preservation wouldn't be needed, so without debate there isn't any action. Now in truth you could have a world without debating, and we would all be just fine without it I'm sure, but we could also have a world without cars or television. Debate may not have a major irreplaceable function, but it does have a point. Maybe it's just that today's debates have lost the reason for that point, since noone cares enough anymore to change their minds debating is basically worthless. Most of us are so stuck in our fixed views of the world that nothing can shake them, however in the days when debate was the strongest action truly did spawn from two or more people simply talking in a room and discussing major problems and their solutions.

  18. #18
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    classified
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    Fullmetal as you say arguments spark action, but the action could not happen without the argument, and the arguments would not exist if there were not different opininons. Arguaments spark action but without opinions and self preservation there would never be an argument that led to action.
    Greatness Reincarnated

  19. #19
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    that point was in the back of my mind. i decided on in those circumstances, debating eventually turns enough gears to run a machine action, but merely talking about the gears and wheels in the machine does nothing to start them up.

    i don't know why people say different opinions in this thread. i'm not trying to figure out what a debate is, i'm trying to figure out it's purpose beyond self satisfaction.

  20. #20
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    classified
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    To settle or petty little disagreements.
    Greatness Reincarnated

  21. #21
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    not much ever gets settled from them though. people are too dense or stubborn to accept a differing opinion. hence it being a waste.

  22. #22
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    classified
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    It might not change their veiws but it does end the disagreement with that person.
    Greatness Reincarnated

  23. #23
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    That's true but i'm not interested in ending disagreements. I'm trying to figure out of it's even worth doing.

  24. #24
    Street Justice Hero Fullmetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Crusading
    Posts
    16,240

    Default

    Also notice all the posting. No one's view has changed in this thread at all, thus furthering my initial point.

  25. #25
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    classified
    Posts
    2,976

    Default

    I guess it is not worth it to spend all that time when you could be doing something productive.
    Greatness Reincarnated

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •