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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerGirl View Post
    So tell me, with these subtle changes, how did creatures like bats ever survive? When they had "subtle changes," how did they manage to avoid extinction before they had fully grown wings? Bats have long, highly flexible fingers, over which the wings are stretched. While these developed, how would they have moved? Looking at pictures, you can see that each finger is about as long as the body. These fingers aren't made for the bat to craw around. It didn't have paws, then grown wings separately so it could still walk around. Stages of development in its "evolution," going from paws to wings, would have made it easy prey for anything.
    I don't know much about the evolution of bats, but I'm sure some of the ancestors did have organs that could walk, but they slowly faded away when no longer needed. Humans are starting to be born without apendixes(I believe that is the organ, but I'm not sure - the organ that was used to digest things like small rocks), and I believe some are starting to have less of a tailbone, but I'm not completely sure about that.

    And then tell me about strata, the layers of the earth. If each one is a seperate, distinct period, why do some fossils go between two layers of strata?
    I don't know, I'm not a geologist. Why don't you go find a geologist and tell him he's wrong. See how it works out.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerGirl View Post
    So tell me, with these subtle changes, how did creatures like bats ever survive? When they had "subtle changes," how did they manage to avoid extinction before they had fully grown wings? Bats have long, highly flexible fingers, over which the wings are stretched. While these developed, how would they have moved? Looking at pictures, you can see that each finger is about as long as the body. These fingers aren't made for the bat to craw around. It didn't have paws, then grown wings separately so it could still walk around. Stages of development in its "evolution," going from paws to wings, would have made it easy prey for anything.
    Well, let me phrase it this way. Suppose you have an animal with no eyes. It's getting preyed upon because it can't see its predator. Then one day one of those animals is born with 1% of an eye. It's basic, but it's better than all of the other animals that are sightless, so it has a slightly higher chance of reproducing and passing on its beneficial genes. This keeps on going until the animal has a fully developed eye.

    Or suppose you take natural selection. Animals that are born lame, deformed, ect. tend to not survive because of their disadvantage, so in essence, nature is weeding out those that aren't fit to survive, therefore creating a fitter population. In this way, animals can slowly change for the better.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    I don't know much about the evolution of bats, but I'm sure some of the ancestors did have organs that could walk, but they slowly faded away when no longer needed. Humans are starting to be born without apendixes(I believe that is the organ, but I'm not sure - the organ that was used to digest things like small rocks), and I believe some are starting to have less of a tailbone, but I'm not completely sure about that.
    That is known as a deformity. People born with deformities are called handicapped.

    The apendix is a very important organ that is used for things other than digesting rocks. Who'd eat a rock in the first place?

  4. #79
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    I read the main part of the article and the part on religion. As for why would they, there could be many reasons. Fear? Maybe to become famous? Make a name for themselves by 'discovering' something and twisting it into a complicated web of theories? It's possible, even if it doesn't sound plausible.

    EDIT: Okay wow, I need to catch up on what's being said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
    Well, let me phrase it this way. Suppose you have an animal with no eyes. It's getting preyed upon because it can't see its predator. Then one day one of those animals is born with 1% of an eye. It's basic, but it's better than all of the other animals that are sightless, so it has a slightly higher chance of reproducing and passing on its beneficial genes. This keeps on going until the animal has a fully developed eye.

    Or suppose you take natural selection. Animals that are born lame, deformed, ect. tend to not survive because of their disadvantage, so in essence, nature is weeding out those that aren't fit to survive, therefore creating a fitter population. In this way, animals can slowly change for the better.

    So if the bat was getting preyed on because of its development of wings, wouldn't it revert back to merely having paws, as the wings were doing it no help? Also, evolution requires an intake of information. Darwin's famous example, the finches on an island had bills shaped differently from those on a mainland, because of the necessity for them to get food. The finches developed these beaks because of the increased ability it gave them to feed themselves. So what about bats? What was the intake of information that told their genetics to grow wings?
    "What luck for rulers that men do not think." ~Adolf Hitler
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    Darwin was and is an idiot.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon View Post
    That is known as a deformity. People born with deformities are called handicapped.

    The apendix is a very important organ that is used for things other than digesting rocks. Who'd eat a rock in the first place?
    "Medical literature shows that the appendix is not generally credited with significant function. The appendix is rich in infection-fighting lymphoid cells, suggesting that it might play a role in the immune system.[2] Whether the appendix has a function, it is routinely removed without any ill effects or side effects.

    Some experts [3] believe that the appendix was used for digesting leaves as primates. Over time, we have eaten less vegetables and have evolved, over millions of years, for this organ to be smaller to make room for our stomach."

    No one thinks the appendix is used for ANYTHING AT ALL.

  8. #83
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    "...to make room for our stomach."

    Sorry I just have to laugh. They expect us to become fat?
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon View Post
    That is known as a deformity. People born with deformities are called handicapped.

    The apendix is a very important organ that is used for things other than digesting rocks. Who'd eat a rock in the first place?

    Please cite a reliable source that says that the appendix has an actual function other than occasionally rupturing and sending people to the hospital. I haven't yet found a source that says that appendixes have some sort of actual purpose in the current day in age. For fuck's sake you can take an appendix out of a perfectly healthy person and nothing happens. If you did that to an organ like the liver, the person would die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon View Post
    Darwin was and is an idiot.
    Well, by that same logic, couldn't I claim that Freud is an idiot? Obviously he was a brilliant man, but his theories were all messed up with his whole penis envy theory and all that. Just because someone may come up with what is subjectively considered a warped idea by some doesn't necessarily mean they're an idiot.

    Using your principles, one could say that Plato was an idiot because he estimated the earth's circumference to be 40,000 miles, when we now know that the actual circumference is 24,900 miles. Get what I'm saying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerGirl View Post
    So if the bat was getting preyed on because of its development of wings, wouldn't it revert back to merely having paws, as the wings were doing it no help? Also, evolution requires an intake of information. Darwin's famous example, the finches on an island had bills shaped differently from those on a mainland, because of the necessity for them to get food. The finches developed these beaks because of the increased ability it gave them to feed themselves. So what about bats? What was the intake of information that told their genetics to grow wings?
    THIS is the misunderstanding of evolution, as if it's some neo-pegan religion where the genetics have brains and know what to do. Some of the finches thousands of years ago had more slightly curved beaks to get the food a little easier, thus starved to death a little less, so they passed on their genetics. Then, eventually another generation, some would have beaks a little more curved yet, so they would pass on their genetics more. This happens over many many generations.

  12. #87
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    Freud is the shit, Walrus. You're just bitter that you have no sex drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
    Well, by that same logic, couldn't I claim that Freud is an idiot? Obviously he was a brilliant man, but his theories were all messed up with his whole penis envy theory and all that. Just because someone may come up with what is subjectively considered a warped idea by some doesn't necessarily mean they're an idiot.

    Using your principles, one could say that Plato was an idiot because he estimated the earth's circumference to be 40,000 miles, when we now know that the actual circumference is 24,900 miles. Get what I'm saying?
    I actually have to agree with this. It was just a theory of his, and whether it was right or not, he can't be considered an idiot. Some of his observations were quite intelligent.
    "What luck for rulers that men do not think." ~Adolf Hitler
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    I'm going to send Walrus a birthday card that says "To a Loving Wife...".

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    THIS is the misunderstanding of evolution, as if it's some neo-pegan religion where the genetics have brains and know what to do. Some of the finches thousands of years ago had more slightly curved beaks to get the food a little easier, thus starved to death a little less, so they passed on their genetics. Then, eventually another generation, some would have beaks a little more curved yet, so they would pass on their genetics more. This happens over many many generations.
    So why would the bats have passed on the developing wings if it only made them easier prey?
    "What luck for rulers that men do not think." ~Adolf Hitler
    "you are gay furthermore you like sex with men" ~god

    One of the Seven Deadly Sins of PD: Femme Greed

  16. #91
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    why would it have made them easier prey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsh View Post
    I'm going to send Walrus a birthday card that says "To a Loving Wife...".
    Make sure it arrives before the 21st

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Freud is the shit, Walrus. You're just bitter that you have no sex drive.
    For the most part, Freud's ideas have been almost completely abandoned by the psychiatric community except for a few die-hard Freudians. You'll be hard pressed to find a psychologist or psychiatrist who still believes in the Oedipus theory.

    However, I won't disagree that, while his ideas seem ridiculous now, he helped get psychiatry moving. Furthermore, his daughter, Anna Freud, contributed quite a lot to modern psychiatry. He was at the very least a necessary stepping stone, as current theories about the mind have evolved from his basic concept. I believe, though I may be incorrect, that he was the one to introduce the theory of the subconscious.

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    Freud basically invented psychoanalysis. Also, I do not see what is so ridiculous about his theories, they make quite a bit of sense, but are abandoned because they are no longer considered PC. But how much of the truth is?

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    Psychoanalysis isn't nearly as effective as the new therapies developed within the past 50 years. Psychoanalysis involves years of biweekly or triweekly sessions in which the patient reflects upon his own actions or feelings with very little intervention from the psychoanalyst. Unless you're incredibly insightful, it takes years to gain insight on your problems through psychoanalysis. Current therapies have therapists taking more of an active role where they guide, but not force, a patient to gain insight on their problems. Therapy is much more effective this way.

    Secondly, psychoanalysis is not effective--sometimes even detrimental--for people with certain mental disorders, like borderline personality disorder or autism. While psychoanalysis was a stepping stone to better therapies, it's not exactly the best choice in the current age and time. They've since developed different versions of therapy that tackle different problems, such as cognitive-behavior therapy, where a therapist helps a patient overcome obsessive thoughts, negative reactions and abnormal behavior patterns.

    Man, I love talking about this stuff. For all your poor grades in school, Tim, I'm impressed that you know at least something about everything.

  21. #96
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    Yeah, but psychoanalysis INVENTED psychology. I'm not really sure what the current techniques are, but they don't seem too great to me, generally with the most simple and basic answer. I still think Freud was abandoned due to the sexism of this theories more than their validity, Frueds theories WERE psychology, and psychology at its truest isn't PC, because, hell, the working of the human mind isn't PC, so of course they were abandoned by the mainstream.

    Things like his stages of psychosexual development I think are brilliant and make a lot of sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
    Make sure it arrives before the 21st
    Alright! It's going to be the best EVER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Yeah, but psychoanalysis INVENTED psychology. I'm not really sure what the current techniques are, but they don't seem too great to me, generally with the most simple and basic answer. I still think Freud was abandoned due to the sexism of this theories more than their validity, Frueds theories WERE psychology, and psychology at its truest isn't PC, because, hell, the working of the human mind isn't PC, so of course they were abandoned by the mainstream.

    Things like his stages of psychosexual development I think are brilliant and make a lot of sense.
    Invented, yes. As I stated before, it was a necessary stepping stone, but again, psychoanalysis isn't nearly as effective as newer therapies. I suppose you could think of it like the antipsychotic drugs that were introduced in the 1960s but had a ton of side effects, and are now rarely ever used with the introduction of safer, more effective antipsychotic drugs introduced in the 90s. People still use them, but to a much smaller degree.

    Children go through psychosexual development, no argument there. Whether the basis of adult problems like obsessive behaviors and whatnot are related to disruptions during a specific psychosexual period is a different thing all together. I don't believe there is a specific stage where all thoughts are focused around the anus or anything like that, but children definitely go through different stages of exploring their sexuality. Boys as young as five months have been noted to have erections, for instance. Masturbation is an extremely common practice among young children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    I don't know much about the evolution of bats, but I'm sure some of the ancestors did have organs that could walk, but they slowly faded away when no longer needed. Humans are starting to be born without apendixes(I believe that is the organ, but I'm not sure - the organ that was used to digest things like small rocks), and I believe some are starting to have less of a tailbone, but I'm not completely sure about that.



    I don't know, I'm not a geologist. Why don't you go find a geologist and tell him he's wrong. See how it works out.
    Actually the appendix was used to digest plant matter

  25. #100
    Everyone is shitty and weird. Me? I'm normal and cool. Giant Squid's Avatar
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    Bah, I missed a bunch of shit. I'll have to catch up in the morning.

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