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Thread: Sexuality, genetic or environmental?

  1. #1
    Registered Users Regular TeenageAngst's Avatar
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    Default Sexuality, genetic or environmental?

    Kipple Snacks says:
    If you're gay, you're gay, its not a phase thing
    TeenageAngst says:
    mm...not according to some "gay" people I know
    Kipple Snacks says:
    then those people are not really gay. I know a decent number of gay people, ranging in ages a lot, and its definitely not a "phase"
    TeenageAngst says:
    one guy's been gay since he was a teenager, he's 32 and is finding he likes women
    Kipple Snacks says:
    that's interesting. Does he find he likes women only, or did he just realize he was bi?
    TeenageAngst says:
    he still likes men
    TeenageAngst says:
    but he's finding more and more that he likes females too
    Kipple Snacks says:
    then that would likely be that he's bi, found he liked guys, convinced himself he was gay (likely with help from the media and what not), and is realizing that he's bi now
    TeenageAngst says:
    nah, when I first met him women were major turn offs for him
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Also, very, very few cases of homosexuality stem from some psychological instance. In general, homosexuals do in fact have abnormalities in the brain (enlarged hypothalamus I believe it is), to where it is actually part of there physiological genetic make up
    TeenageAngst says:
    bah
    TeenageAngst says:
    psychological my ass
    TeenageAngst says:
    err genetic sorry
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Have you ever researched it dude?
    TeenageAngst says:
    no
    Kipple Snacks says:
    There are differences in a few key parts of the brain in most homosexuals, specifically (as I said, I believe hypothalamus) that is enlarged
    TeenageAngst says:
    mmm I'd have to see more evidence
    Kipple Snacks says:
    I'll dig out my biopsych text book when I wake up and then dig around google for the most complete study
    Kipple Snacks says:
    *more complete
    TeenageAngst says:
    Psychology's major objective seems to be convenient relocation of "the blame"
    TeenageAngst says:
    nothing is "your fault" you're born with it or it's random chance or past experiences inadvertently gave it to you
    TeenageAngst says:
    but it's not a choice and there's nothing to be ashamed of
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Nobody is going to consciously choose to be gay, there would be no reason to
    TeenageAngst says:
    sure there would
    Kipple Snacks says:
    I could see an arguement on the benefits of bisexuality, however, for pure homosexuality, nay
    TeenageAngst says:
    personally I can't think of a reason anyone would eat mustard but people love the stuff
    TeenageAngst says:
    I don't see the appeal of country music
    TeenageAngst says:
    why would sexual attraction be different from other attraction?
    Kipple Snacks says:
    taste has very little to do with choice, its more about what you happen to like.
    TeenageAngst says:
    aquired taste?
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Some is aquired, but I'm pretty sure that even if I ate a lot of celery, I'd still gag at it
    TeenageAngst says:
    me too
    TeenageAngst says:
    but with peanut butter it's the shit
    Kipple Snacks says:
    You see, you're making the same piss poor, uneducated arguement about homosexuality that I see from many christians
    TeenageAngst says:
    whoa whoa whoa
    Kipple Snacks says:
    There are psychological studies, as well as physically observable differences in the brain.
    TeenageAngst says:
    what?
    TeenageAngst says:
    then entirety of psychology research today is driven by ways to make new problems up and make old ones socially acceptable
    TeenageAngst says:
    most of the time it's perfectly normal reactions to overexposure to abnormal conditions
    TeenageAngst says:
    when that happens it's a habit or an aquired taste
    Kipple Snacks says:
    However a large portion of the studies were from 20 years ago and such. Its not a whole bunch of recent bull shit. And if there was a lot of bull shit with it, then it would not be able to be replicated. Yes, there is a lot of psudoscience in psychology, especially with things today. However, normal basis of homosexuality is the part of the brain responsible for sexual attraction is similar to that of the opposite gender(thusly a homosexual man's hypothalamus, or could be amygdala, I forget which, is the same as a heterosexual woman's), thusly explaining where the attraction comes in. The same instance can be seen in the brains of other animals that exhibit homosexual tendencies, such as various monkeys/chimps, cats etc...
    TeenageAngst says:
    do they know that it develops that way naturally or do changes in environment cause it to develop that way
    Kipple Snacks says:
    there is actually a science in this, and not all of psychology is just cracked up bull shit. Yes, it can seem like a lot of it is crap, but there is a lot of good being pumped through psychology for the purposes of study as well as helping people. I can specifically see the helpful influence of psychology within the mentally disabled/retarded/autistic community.
    Kipple Snacks says:
    the changes in the brain are identifiably originated prenataly.
    TeenageAngst says:
    does it change through development?
    Kipple Snacks says:
    can you rephrase that question?
    TeenageAngst says:
    is it possible to override the genetic tendency with environemental changes?
    Kipple Snacks says:
    No
    Kipple Snacks says:
    which is why all those "We'll cure the gay out of you" jesus camps don't work, and nearly everyone "cured" by them has "reverted"
    TeenageAngst says:
    so these children can be screened before being born to see if they're gonna be gay or not? why not do it to every baby and save them years of sexual ambiguity
    Kipple Snacks says:
    I don't believe that it can be conclusively identified while in the womb, and if so, it is costly, and done far too late for an abortion
    Kipple Snacks says:
    However, I will state this, I'm tired, hungry, and a bit on the defensive due to my cousin, which, even though I accept it, it is rather shocking. When I wake, I'll see about getting my biopsych book and getting the studies for you
    TeenageAngst says:
    I still hold my doubts that environmental and social changes couldn't have an influence on it one way or the other
    Kipple Snacks says:
    You wouldent have so many high devout christians and other that are so against it randomly popping up as gay
    TeenageAngst says:
    and of course there was never a gay man who ended up becoming straight
    Kipple Snacks says:
    There are cases of psychological issues that would cause homosexuality for perhaps a limited time
    Kipple Snacks says:
    This is far from the norm though
    Kipple Snacks says:
    and there is the whole thing of most people being partially bisexual at least.
    TeenageAngst says:
    that opens up a whole grey area
    Kipple Snacks says:
    yes, there is a huge grey area
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Though in general, there is a primary attraction
    TeenageAngst says:
    recongnizing that primary attraction could be difficult though, especially if one is medicated and/or suffering from a mental "illness"
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Yes, it is difficult to tell what's going on when someone is medicated and perhaps "mentally ill" but most people are not, and thusly a study can carry through. But it does not refute the abnormal brain makeup between homo and hetero sexuals
    TeenageAngst says:
    many people do have a "mental illness" and even something like simple depression can cause enourmous changes in sexual activity and such
    Kipple Snacks says:
    based on studies with rats, and what can be observed in humans, prenatal testosterone levels have an effect on homosexuality. Giving rise to it when a boy has many elder brothers, and I believe it is when the mother is older, more likely for homosexuality
    Kipple Snacks says:
    while depression can cause changes in sexual activity, things of that nature generally do not affect sexual preference
    Kipple Snacks says:
    I don't loose my job, get depressed and self loathing, and then think "Man, I need a cock"
    TeenageAngst says:
    mmm not when sexual experiementation is the order of the day for most teenagers in middle/highschool
    TeenageAngst says:
    plus, you don't have clinical depression
    Kipple Snacks says:
    There's a difference between curisity and experimentation and feeling in need of a cock
    TeenageAngst says:
    I can honestly say when I've been in a bipolar mood before I've felt somewhat gay myself, I've grown to like pictures of furry males and can jerk to them as easily as a female, but I'm not a homosexual as I don't find RL men attractive
    Kipple Snacks says:
    seems more like the furry aspect than homosexuality. and no, I don't, have all the answers, and neither do the studies, but there is fairly conclusive evidence in both humans and other animals that shows homosexuality is not a choice, and is based on prenatal conditions
    Kipple Snacks says:
    in the standard, vast majority of those who are homosexual their entire lives
    TeenageAngst says:
    yes but my point is some people may grow homosexual tendecies that may seem prevalent, but they may like women more. Perhaps the homosexuality is a fetish
    Kipple Snacks says:
    Ahh yes, of course there are cases such as that.
    TeenageAngst says:
    plus, like gays lying they're straight, some straight people may lie that they're gay for their own reasons
    Kipple Snacks says:
    There's no solid law, just "Most cases are this, don't discount that" kind of thing
    TeenageAngst says:
    yeah I'll agree on that

    That was my discussion on it, give your opinions please.
    "I prefer a sane world where you are rewarded by providing people with something they want. Not arbitrarily rewarded in a status game that reminds me of chimpanzees." - nazgulnarsil

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  2. #2
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    It probably has a lot to do with genetics, considering there are examples of homosexuality in animals, and it dates back a pretty long ways, but a very good majority of those who claim to be gay these days probably aren't. Would have to do a lot more reading into the matter though.

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    TeenageAngst says:
    I can honestly say when I've been in a bipolar mood before I've felt somewhat gay myself, I've grown to like pictures of furry males and can jerk to them as easily as a female, but I'm not a homosexual as I don't find RL men attractive
    Well, TA, that's just weird.

  4. #4
    Revolting Mex's Avatar
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    Genetic totally. I've met quite a few people who, coming out of conservative backgrounds, admitting to be homosexual. it's just nothing you can help, and that's ok.
    When the Devil is too busy
    And Death's a bit too much
    They call on me by name you see,
    For my special touch.

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    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
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    I dont think that it cant be helped, god says that being homosexual is a sin so why would there be a variable in your body that changes your sexual background? I personally think that if those homos dont want to burn in hell then they have to take up some religion and try their hardest to to bend their penis back into the cat.
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    Revolting Mex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jimmy chow View Post
    I dont think that it cant be helped, god says that being homosexual is a sin so why would there be a variable in your body that changes your sexual background?
    Because god doesn't exist, and even if he did, he is meant to be an "all loving" being. I don't think he would care very much
    When the Devil is too busy
    And Death's a bit too much
    They call on me by name you see,
    For my special touch.

  7. #7
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    To be fair during the times the Bible was written homosexuality was a lot more devious than it is these days.

  8. #8
    Registered Users Regular TeenageAngst's Avatar
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    I'm still pretty positive that certain environmental factors can cause or prevent it, especially at pivital times during a person's development.
    "I prefer a sane world where you are rewarded by providing people with something they want. Not arbitrarily rewarded in a status game that reminds me of chimpanzees." - nazgulnarsil

    Here I am with my empire
    Iíll bring you to your knees
    Ebb and flow with my desire
    Cause its all that youíve been taught to be

  9. #9
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
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    Actually the rise in numbers of gay people are due to the food we eat, many foods have been containing estrogen lately
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    I must break you. Borkly's Avatar
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    If you're serious, link to info plz.

  11. #11
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
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    I heard it on the radio with a doctor as a guest appearance on the station claiming that such foods as chicken and its kin have been containing estrogen from the injection of soy beans into the chickens, cows, etc. Turns out that soybeans are actually full of estrogen and since its bein pumped into our foods its inevitable unless you dont eat them anymore or in moderation.

    The bad thing about it is that with an abundance of estrogen there is a more likely chance for a person to either be feminine or flat out gay, they have done tests on mice which resulted in the mice having slight homosexual behaviors as in actually turning gay. When you link this to humans the exact same thing can happen, you most likely wont just flat out havin sex with guys but you will acquire feminine traits or with an abundance and some stress in any shape will most likely make you become a raging homosexual.

    I hope this helped in some way
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  12. #12
    King Black Dragon Backs's Avatar
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    If depression and eating crappy can give you brain tumors then yes, I do believe environmental and social experiences and involvement can alter your sexual preference.

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    I must break you. Borkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu jimmy chow View Post
    I heard it on the radio with a doctor as a guest appearance on the station claiming that such foods as chicken and its kin have been containing estrogen from the injection of soy beans into the chickens, cows, etc. Turns out that soybeans are actually full of estrogen and since its bein pumped into our foods its inevitable unless you dont eat them anymore or in moderation.

    The bad thing about it is that with an abundance of estrogen there is a more likely chance for a person to either be feminine or flat out gay, they have done tests on mice which resulted in the mice having slight homosexual behaviors as in actually turning gay. When you link this to humans the exact same thing can happen, you most likely wont just flat out havin sex with guys but you will acquire feminine traits or with an abundance and some stress in any shape will most likely make you become a raging homosexual.

    I hope this helped in some way
    I seriously doubt the studies that concluded that it's genetics and not environment that affects people's sexuality brought that into consideration. That said, this might have something to do with the rise in bisexuality and homosexuality seen in recent decades. That rise gives way to it being culturally acceptable and encouraged sometimes, and that just adds to the complication, especially in schools where children are still learning who and what they are.

  14. #14
    I must break you. Borkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backs View Post
    If depression and eating crappy can give you brain tumors then yes, I do believe environmental and social experiences and involvement can alter your sexual preference.
    Well, cancer in general. I wonder if aphrodisiacs can bring out latent homosexual tendencies in normal people, or vice versa for gay people.

  15. #15
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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  16. #16
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
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    What a gay book, its gay
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  17. #17
    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    From what I've heard, it's more of a hormonal thing, namely, the ones you're exposed to at birth but I suppopse that one about foods is possible too.

  18. #18
    captain of the ship kg's Avatar
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    I'm under the beliefe that sexuality is not a clear cut straight, gay and bi but a continuum-esque type of thing. I think genetically you're put in a place on that scale but enviornmental things may push you one way or another on the scale, but not in a very significant way.

  19. #19
    Elite Four Member Myuu's Avatar
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    I think it is kind of both Genetic and a Phase. Besides omosexuality is not something that should be descriminated... it is not the gays fault...

  20. #20
    happy awesome power kung fu jimmy chow's Avatar
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    Of course it is
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  21. #21
    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    Then it's God's fault. Or the devil's. And a whole lot of good blaming them does. Anyone ever see Kinsey? As I recall, that film said most people, gay or straight, are in fact closeted bisexuals.

  22. #22
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    That's pretty ridiculous. I don't think most people would actually HAVE SEX with their gender. A lot of stupid kids will say they're bisexual because they find members of their same sex attractive or something, but say THEY'D NEVER ACTUALL HAVE SEX WITH THEM. If you won't actually have sex with the gender, you are not attracted to it.

  23. #23
    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    That really depends on the reasons they won't though doesn't it? If you were on your 4th tequila and an asteroid was gonna strike the Earth tomorrow you might do a lot of things you swore you'd never do.

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