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  1. #51
    I must break you. Borkly's Avatar
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    That was a relevant post god damn it why was it deleted?

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    Y'know, arguing for the enemy is fun... Anyway, where was I? Ah yes...

    There's no reason to suppose God needs time to do anything. If God is outside time, all that means is that for God everything happens at once, including the creation of the universe. Effectively the creation of the universe would happen instantaneously, because without time all events happen simultaneously.

    A perfect being can feel the need for love, as long as we consider omnibenevolence to be a requirement of perfection. Being able to love and feel love is clearly a good quality, but if you have that quality you can't act on it without something to love. Loving yourself is pretty hollow, so God woud need to create beings who, like Him, loved, hence humanity.

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    -_-; this topic has spiraled into irrelevant drivel.

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    You're an idiot if you think that. Philosophy is what Christians use to justify their beliefs in the real world.

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    thats what happens when the editor shows up
    "I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
    "What else?" said the secretary.

  6. #56
    I must break you. Borkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    You're an idiot if you think that. Philosophy is what Christians use to justify their beliefs in the real world.
    No, total rejection of logic and science is what they use to survive their daily lives. Christianity when taken literally is the trademark of someone too oblivious, stupid, or scared to face life without a mental and spiritual crutch.

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    Have you ever heard of Thomas Aquinas?

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    Nothing you believe is right.

    You will rot in the ground.

    Whether or not I believe this, I think it's fun to see how people get inflamed.


    Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted;
    Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone.


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  9. #59
    Guardian of the Dimensions Kittsuera's Avatar
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    Default First off I will say this I am a Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by KS Jr. View Post
    You're not really giving any proof. You're simply using examples from a book that is the only reason your argument exists, so it's not really a good idea.
    Then Perhaps I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    God is just something that somebody made up long ago to get people to do what they wanted to. Things just didn't appear on earth because some invisible deity wanted them to, and certainly not out of dust either. I'm not saying I'm one of those Scientology people, but you have to think logically about some things, especially since there's proof that life on earth and earth itself existed way before God supposedly created it.

    Anyways, I suppose a non believer could see as you put it 'his light on earth', but you could just be seeing what you want to see. My own father said he saw Jesus in the mirror in his bathroom, but I say he was fucked up drunk and was just seeing shit. Not everything is 'miracles' and 'light on earth'.
    Here’s my proof so to speak. I remember many years ago I was told in my heart and mind that that there would be a band and I should pick something to do in it. I believe that this was god who told me this. I asked in my heart and mind if I could run the technical aspect of it and the answer I felt that it would be ok. I believed that it would happen some day even if I didn’t have proof. Well as time goes on I meet some one in the forth grade who liked Pokemon. (I know, this has a point bear with me) At the time all I knew was that he liked Pokemon and that was it. Many years later I come to find in high school that he went to a small church by the railroad tracks. I made vary sure that I didn’t go there just because one of my friends was there. Only after making my decision to go there did I find out that they were trying to start a band. I had no direct influence on this. They weren’t too good at first but they stuck with it as the church band and thing began to move. Now this small church could barely fit the people inside of it and cars were parked behind cars. Through prayer and faith, we as church set our eyes upon a relatively new building. It was a theater building that was built not to long ago and the original owners had file bankrupt on the building. This theater building is a 4 Cineplex Theater with plenty of parking and worth over 3 billion dollars. We asked about it and they said we couldn’t possibly not ever even set a foot inside that building with how much collateral we had. The congregation wasn’t all that big either but we kept asking and faithfully pushing for it like it was going to happen, not like it might happen but as it was ours. Many things came against us but we never turned away and then finally something broke loose against all logic we were seriously considered.
    Their superiors asked if there were any offers on the building and the bank said just one but it isn’t a good one. The bankers that basically had the building in their position were told by their superiors to do what ever it takes to sell the building. We got the building for a little over billion dollars. They said we basically got into the building on a handshake.
    Now back to the band. We set up a soundboard and projector in the church. The words to the songs are shown on the big screen and some how I’m now presently running it along with a few other technical things. Now how could I have know or have been told the forth grade that I was going to be working with a church band that I didn’t know, now. It’s only been two or so years since I found out about the ‘Victory Fellowship Church.’
    There is my proof. Logically none of this should have been possible but it still happened so not everything has a logical explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pikatwo View Post
    No human described 'God' created the universe, especially if we're talking about the Christian God since his attributes and qualities are most widely known and contradictory. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful and has an infinite existence, why did he decide to create the universe only 13.5 billion years ago? It should have always existed. What held him back? If something held him back, he's limiting his omnipotence. If he's existed for eternity and is all-knowing, he's known for eternity that he was going to create the universe, so therefore the universe should have existed for all eternity as well, but this is illogical because it would mean he couldn't have created it. It would have always been there. So either God hasn't existed for eternity, both God and the universe have an infinite existence and both weren't created or God doesn't exist and the universe is finite and was created by itself.


    Created them for what purpose? God would have no reason or need to create anything.


    'God' never gave anyone knowledge. Our knowledge has been obtained through experimentation and observation.
    “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge him, and He shall direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and depart from evil. It will be health to your bones. Honor the lord with your possessions, and with all your increase; So your barns will be filled with plent, and your vats will overflow with new wine. My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor detest His correction; For whom the Lord loves He corrects, just as a father the son in whom he delights.” - Proverbs 3:5-12

    Jesus had said that he spoke in parables so that we might understand. He didn’t speak plainly for how could we possible comprehend everything that God knows if we can’t even understand all the things of this earth. The bible doesn’t tell you everything only what you need to know. How would you like it if in order for you to turn the computer on you had to know everything there is about a computer. Another way of looking at it is say for example all the knowledge God has is all the libraries in the world. The bible is just one book. How can one expect to comprehend all that he has.

    ---
    Believing is trusting in something that you can’t see or necessarily prove other wise it would be knowing and the whole think would thus be fact and we would have our path before us set in stone. The reason that we can even argue this is because God gave us the choice to do what we wanted. The thing is every time we do something good or bad we plant a seed and that seed grows in our hearts.

    We were created in His image, that doesn’t mean God must look like us, that means our spirit was modeled after him. We have all these emotions because he has them.

    Dust we are made of, how can I prove this? Do you know where dust comes from in your home? Dead skin cells, and when we die we decompose and become part of the earth as dust. Still wondering how we can be made of dust? Well as stated previously all things are made of matter and energy etc.. so since dust is made up of matter and we are made of matter then somewhere along the line were are made of dust.
    Knowledge… “…my people parish for their lack of knowledge…” ( really don’t want to look this up at 1:48 am…)

    When you give to the lord he multiplies it back to you. I have see this may times and it is the only thing he said to test him in. you see he want you to do good and live a live with out problems. The most recent instance of this that I have is that I put in some where around three to six dollars in to the offering. (not much you might say but when all you have is ten dollars for the week if not month…) With in three days I had $60 and then some. I don’t have a job and my money comes from other places. I don’t go around asking for money and yet I end up with it. Thinks don’t all ways happen the way you expect them to. I prayed for a little brother when I was almost five… I asked for a little brother who would make bigger mess than me at my grandmas house. I got what I prayed for but it sort of backfired, He made bigger mess than me at my grandmas house just like I had asked but he didn’t stop there he made bigger everywhere.
    Not everything you ask for will come right away though, it takes time… its like planting a seed, you can’t expect to be eating apples the next day…

    In any case it is possible for nonbelievers and such to see something spiritual but they won’t understand it with out knowing how to interrupt the meaning of it.
    ---

    Also its not about Religion its about having a personal relationship with god. You can't work your way into heaven, your works apply to something else but they are void to you if you do not accept Him... God can use anyone saved or not but wouldn't you like to reap the benefits and rewards instead of receiving nothing?

    Food for thought
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  10. #60
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    For a billion dollars you could have provided food and education to millions of starving Africans. But no, you wanted a fancier place to go to church. Good job.
    "I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
    "What else?" said the secretary.

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    You think having dreams and voices in your head gives flight to the existence of an invisible figure? Seems rather ridiculous to me.

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    Guardian of the Dimensions Kittsuera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    For a billion dollars you could have provided food and education to millions of starving Africans. But no, you wanted a fancier place to go to church. Good job.
    Not everyone is called to the same thing. Imagine if your ears wanted to be eyes then what would there be to hear with? If the eyes wanted to be noses then what would there be to see with? There are those who are called to say provide food and education to millions of starving Africans. As a church we don’t just have a big expensive building, we do help others in the community. One of the members of our church is in charge of the toys for tots and just last month several thousand toys were collected in town. It was only about thousand toys less than the capital city of Arizona had raised. Just because we got a bigger place doesn’t mean we are not providing provisions for others. On the contrary having a bigger place allows more room to grow and thus with more members there is much more that we can do and then some.

    Quote Originally Posted by KS Jr. View Post
    You think having dreams and voices in your head gives flight to the existence of an invisible figure? Seems rather ridiculous to me.
    Yes, when what is told by said dreams and voices does indeed happen and the advice that is given does not do harm but gives lights unto the better path. The reason for doing things may not be clear at first but they will be when the time is right.

    “So Jesus answered and said to them, “Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them. And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. But if you do not forgive, neither will your father in heaven forgive your trespasses.” -Mark 11:22-26

    It might seen ridiculous to trust by faith before you can see it, but know that all things are possible to one who believes in Him.
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    None of that constitutes evidence.

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    Guardian of the Dimensions Kittsuera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    None of that constitutes evidence.
    Evidence, like people in our church being told by the doctor that they have [insert illness here] one day and the next time they go for a check up, after being prayed for, are free from said illness with out the use of medical assistance?

    “Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
    Jesus answered, “I an the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
    Philip said, “Lord show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
    Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say ‘show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.” -John 14:5-14
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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Just curious. Do you believe in evolution?
    "I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
    "What else?" said the secretary.

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    Biblical quotes carry no weight. And such stories of 'miracle cures' can be explained in other ways. What else is an immune system for? And how long did the subjects wait between the appointments? I myself have trimonthly hospital appointments, and a lot can happen in three months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Just curious. Do you believe in evolution?
    The theory that we all evolved from apes, which also goes further than that?
    No

    As in: Creatures can adapt and change depending on the environment and selective reproduction? Some what, maybe.

    (As far as it’s use in video games and cartoons like Pokemon, it makes things interesting.
    The way I see it is that they just change as they grow up.)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    Biblical quotes carry no weight. And such stories of 'miracle cures' can be explained in other ways. What else is an immune system for? And how long did the subjects wait between the appointments? I myself have trimonthly hospital appointments, and a lot can happen in three months.
    When said illness is cancer, a tumor or a chronic disorder? It wasn’t more than a week or two. There are other miracles other than just cures its just the one that seems to be notice the most.
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  18. #68
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    The theory that we all evolved from apes, which also goes further than that?
    No

    As in: Creatures can adapt and change depending on the environment and selective reproduction? Some what, maybe.
    Yeah, but adaption IS proof of evolution. There is really no proof against evolution and a massive amount of proof for evolution. Any kind of evidence you have to disprove evolution?

    I myself am a Christian, but not believing in evolution is pretty ridiculous, what with it being scientific fact and all.
    "I'll go," said Chagataev. "But what will I do there? Build socialism?"
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    The Gentleman Fuhrer Pikatwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Editor View Post
    Y'know, arguing for the enemy is fun... Anyway, where was I? Ah yes...

    There's no reason to suppose God needs time to do anything. If God is outside time, all that means is that for God everything happens at once, including the creation of the universe. Effectively the creation of the universe would happen instantaneously, because without time all events happen simultaneously.
    Without time, nothing can happen. Change and motion requires time, The Editor. If I knock over a pile of bricks, it takes a second or two for them to fall to the ground. It therefore took time for my action to effect change. So how exactly can 'God' exist outside of time and effect change? It's completely illogical. If you exist outside of time you're essentially powerless.

    Jesus had said that he spoke in parables so that we might understand. He didn’t speak plainly for how could we possible comprehend everything that God knows if we can’t even understand all the things of this earth. The bible doesn’t tell you everything only what you need to know. How would you like it if in order for you to turn the computer on you had to know everything there is about a computer. Another way of looking at it is say for example all the knowledge God has is all the libraries in the world. The bible is just one book. How can one expect to comprehend all that he has.
    I never claimed that I expected we should be able to comprehend all of his knowledge (for the sake of argument I'll assume he exists), what I was implying was that all of the knowledge we have which has benefited us has been obtained by us, not given to us by God. The Bible hasn't given us any beneficial knowledge whatsoever.

    Believing is trusting in something that you can’t see or necessarily prove other wise it would be knowing and the whole think would thus be fact and we would have our path before us set in stone.
    You already believe that his existence is fact, so what difference would it make exactly? And doesn't the Bible mention God speaking to people directly? Doesn't that kind of defeat the whole purpose of faith? Would love to hear your response. And if you're going to argue that believing is trusting in something you can't see or necessarily prove, then why don't you (I'm assuming you don't, but it's a pretty good assumption) believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and invisible flying refrigerators?

    The reason that we can even argue this is because God gave us the choice to do what we wanted. The thing is every time we do something good or bad we plant a seed and that seed grows in our hearts.
    Tell me. Why exactly did God create human beings with the ability to commit evil? If he's all-knowing (omniscient), all-loving (omnibenevolent) and eternal, then it makes sense that he's known for all eternity that human beings would lead a miserable existence full of violence and war, so if he's supposed to be compassion, why did he create us with the ability to commit evil knowing all of this would happen? If I foresaw that my son or daughter was going to drive themself off of a cliff on the 10th of July 2035, I'd make damn sure that I prevent that from happening by removing anything that causes those circumstances to arise. If God was all-powerful he could have easily created humans with free will, with the ability to do only good, so why didn't he?

    We were created in His image, that doesn’t mean God must look like us, that means our spirit was modeled after him.
    What spirit? You mean that apparently non-quantifiable energy that's supposed to be the source of our sentience? Sorry, that doesn't exist.

    We have all these emotions because he has them.
    So he would have emotions like hatred, jealousy and greed? Okay then, he's imperfect.

    Dust we are made of, how can I prove this? Do you know where dust comes from in your home? Dead skin cells, and when we die we decompose and become part of the earth as dust. Still wondering how we can be made of dust? Well as stated previously all things are made of matter and energy etc.. so since dust is made up of matter and we are made of matter then somewhere along the line were are made of dust.
    Knowledge… “…my people parish for their lack of knowledge…” ( really don’t want to look this up at 1:48 am…)
    I never mentioned a thing about dust, so I don't know who you're trying to prove wrong exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittsuera View Post
    Evidence, like people in our church being told by the doctor that they have [insert illness here] one day and the next time they go for a check up, after being prayed for, are free from said illness with out the use of medical assistance?
    That isn't evidence of anything. There are rare cases where cancers are known to go into a submissive or 'dormant' state then reappear later. There have also been plenty of 'miracle cancer cure' hoaxes aswell. And tell me, why are there zero documented cases of amputees who prayed to God having their limbs 'miraculously' grow back? Why aren't people in a vegatative state ever snapped out of it by God despite the prayers of their family members? Seems that the all-powerful God is pretty choosy about what conditions to cure.
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    Who said there was a change when the universe was created? Surely, if all things outside time happen instantaneously, then there is no point when the universe didn't exist, and therefore there was no change from non-existence to existence.

    Just to be clear, I don't actually believe that the universe was created (I actually think the universe constantly expands and contracts), I'm just trying to lead this to a point where I can say "No, there's no way God could have created the universe."

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Yeah, but adaption IS proof of evolution. There is really no proof against evolution and a massive amount of proof for evolution. Any kind of evidence you have to disprove evolution?

    I myself am a Christian, but not believing in evolution is pretty ridiculous, what with it being scientific fact and all.
    What I mean is that the theory it self goes to far. Sure there’s proof of micro evolution but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t in Gods plan in the first place, for the survival of his creatures.

    That theory says we evolved into existence and was not created by God.

    Technology is still advancing and new things are found everyday (so to speak). We don’t have all the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pikatwo View Post
    Without time, nothing can happen. Change and motion requires time, The Editor. If I knock over a pile of bricks, it takes a second or two for them to fall to the ground. It therefore took time for my action to effect change. So how exactly can 'God' exist outside of time and effect change? It's completely illogical. If you exist outside of time you're essentially powerless.
    Exactly my point. God existing outside of time and is thus not bound by the laws of physics or logic.
    “And they said to him, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?” But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one question; then answer Me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things: “The baptism of John- was it from heaven or from men? Answer Me.” And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘from,’ He will say, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ “But if we say, ‘From men’”- they feared the people, for all counted John to have been a Prophet indeed. So they answered and said to Jesus “We do not know.” And Jesus answered and said to them “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”-Mark 11:28-33

    I never claimed that I expected we should be able to comprehend all of his knowledge (for the sake of argument I'll assume he exists), what I was implying was that all of the knowledge we have which has benefited us has been obtained by us, not given to us by God. The Bible hasn't given us any beneficial knowledge whatsoever.
    The bible is like the users manual for humans. It teaches life’s lessons. With out knowing the past you are doomed to repeat it.

    You already believe that his existence is fact, so what difference would it make exactly? And doesn't the Bible mention God speaking to people directly? Doesn't that kind of defeat the whole purpose of faith? Would love to hear your response. And if you're going to argue that believing is trusting in something you can't see or necessarily prove, then why don't you (I'm assuming you don't, but it's a pretty good assumption) believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and invisible flying refrigerators?
    Yes the Bible does mention God speaking to people directly.

    “And he [the Lord] said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind and earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
    And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” --Kings 19:11-12 (KJV)

    Even though he can speak directly to the people, not everyone is willing to stop and listen. It is by faith that people must believe.

    ---

    then why don't you (I'm assuming you don't, but it's a pretty good assumption) believe in unicorns, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy and invisible flying refrigerators?
    Unicorns may exist for we don’t know everything that is in this world.

    Santa Claus in essence existed/ exists.

    “Saint Nicholas of Myra is the primary inspiration for the Christian figure of Santa Claus. He was a 4th-century Greek Christian bishop of Myra in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes. He was very religious from an early age and devoted his life entirely to Christianity. In Europe (more precisely the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and Germany) he is still portrayed as a bearded bishop in canonical robes. In 1087, the Italian city of Bari, wanting to enter the profitable pilgrimage industry of the times, mounted an expedition to locate the tomb of the Christian Saint and procure the remains. The reliquary of St. Nicholas was desecrated by Italian sailors and the spoils, including his relics, taken to Bari [8] [9] where they are kept to this day. A basilica was constructed the same year to store the loot and the area became a pilgrimage site for the devout, thus justifying the economic cost of the expedition. Saint Nicholas became claimed as a patron saint of many diverse groups, from archers and children to pawnbrokers.[10] He is also the patron saint of both Amsterdam and Moscow.[11]” -- Wikipedia.com

    Also


    The Easter Bunny, did you know in Australia they have Easter Bilbies?

    Invisible flying Refrigerators?! That’s a new one to me. I believe its possible but highly in probable at the moment.

    Tell me. Why exactly did God create human beings with the ability to commit evil? If he's all-knowing (omniscient), all-loving (omnibenevolent) and eternal, then it makes sense that he's known for all eternity that human beings would lead a miserable existence full of violence and war, so if he's supposed to be compassion, why did he create us with the ability to commit evil knowing all of this would happen? If I foresaw that my son or daughter was going to drive themself off of a cliff on the 10th of July 2035, I'd make damn sure that I prevent that from happening by removing anything that causes those circumstances to arise. If God was all-powerful he could have easily created humans with free will, with the ability to do only good, so why didn't he?
    Well that’s actually our (I’m refering to Adam and Eve) fault. By eating the forbidden fruit they opened them selves to evil. They died in the spirit and so were cut off from God for god is of the spirit. They no longer had God living in them only there selves and the voice of evil. While they were still able to here God’s voice they had become vulnerable to the things of the world.
    -

    “then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the live stalk, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he Created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that that moves on the ground.”
    Then God said, “I give you every seed bearing plant on the face of the earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-- everything that has the breath of life in it-- I give you every plant for food.”
    And it was so.” -Genesis 1:26-30

    He originally created us to rule over the earth but we basically handed over the title deed to the devil (Its like the son sold the farm for a couple of rotten eggs)
    Eventually God sent his son to earth to pay the price of our sins and in the process took back what we had given the devil. (It’s like the father bought the farm back.)

    He basically did make us with the ability to do only good as the whole world was ours to rule over. There was only one thing God said not to do…

    “The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.” --Genesis 2:15-16

    What spirit? You mean that apparently non-quantifiable energy that's supposed to be the source of our sentience? Sorry, that doesn't exist.
    The breath of life.
    ““Spirit” means literally “wind” or “breath” in the Bible” -- an explanation from the Student Bible.

    [/QUOTE] So he would have emotions like hatred, jealousy and greed? Okay then, he's imperfect.[/QUOTE]

    Greed is wanting that which isn’t yours. He created the heavens and the earth there for he already has it.


    I never mentioned a thing about dust, so I don't know who you're trying to prove wrong exactly.
    No but…
    Quote Originally Posted by Boycrazies View Post
    I am atheist, but the whole thing is kind of confusing to me. Who made god? How did he create the people? Or the animals? I cant remember which, but one theory is that we were made of dust. If that is so, where did the blood come from? And our knowledge? So many questions, so little time.

    That isn't evidence of anything. There are rare cases where cancers are known to go into a submissive or 'dormant' state then reappear later. There have also been plenty of 'miracle cancer cure' hoaxes aswell. And tell me, why are there zero documented cases of amputees who prayed to God having their limbs 'miraculously' grow back? Why aren't people in a vegatative state ever snapped out of it by God despite the prayers of their family members? Seems that the all-powerful God is pretty choosy about what conditions to cure.
    Documented in the bible, yes?
    Because they probably don’t believe its possible; faith is needed. Many people try to put God in a box, only believing Him for the small(some) things and not in all things.
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    In Soviet Russia, Editor is protected from YOU!! The Editor's Avatar
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    Stay out of my argument. No offence, but I am trying to rationalise part of your belief for you, and that means the last thing I need is a proposal claiming God doesn't have to be logical.

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    I have a very important question for you, Kittsuera. Theologists, historians, archeologists, and even biblical scholars are in agreement that the bible is anything but perfectly intact. They show obvious points in the old testament where stories were modified or added on to, they have records showing the apostles were in fact not with Jesus, and never knew Jesus personally. They have documented proof that the original books of the bible were held by the politically motivated catholic church for hundreds of years and went under countless modifications. Mistranslations abound in the popular King James version of the bible. I can provide proof from multiple sources to back this up. How can you tell me that even with all these imperfections the book you arrogantly cling to is the word of god?
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

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    Don't forget that the Church actually picked what texts to include in the Bible. Thankfully some newer versions contain the missing texts, but it's interesting to think that the Word of God was open to such concealments. "Ooh, can't 'ave that; gives the wrong impression."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittsuera View Post
    Exactly my point. God existing outside of time and is thus not bound by the laws of physics or logic.
    God is bound to the rules of logic. He isn't above them. If he weren't bound to those rules, then you couldn't possibly use logic to say anything about him. You couldn't even call him 'God'.

    The bible is like the users manual for humans. It teaches life’s lessons. With out knowing the past you are doomed to repeat it.
    I've lived for twenty years just fine without the Bible. So what exactly is the Bible good for? It's obviously not needed to get you through life.

    Yes the Bible does mention God speaking to people directly.

    Even though he can speak directly to the people, not everyone is willing to stop and listen. It is by faith that people must believe.
    Are you kidding me? Are you seriously suggesting that blind faith is a more effective way of getting people to believe than speaking to them directly?

    Unicorns may exist for we don’t know everything that is in this world.
    Unicorns don't exist. My point was, if you believe in something by just trusting that it's real, why not unicorns?

    Santa Claus in essence existed/ exists.

    “Saint Nicholas of Myra is the primary inspiration for the Christian figure of Santa Claus. He was a 4th-century Greek Christian bishop of Myra in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes. He was very religious from an early age and devoted his life entirely to Christianity. In Europe (more precisely the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and Germany) he is still portrayed as a bearded bishop in canonical robes. In 1087, the Italian city of Bari, wanting to enter the profitable pilgrimage industry of the times, mounted an expedition to locate the tomb of the Christian Saint and procure the remains. The reliquary of St. Nicholas was desecrated by Italian sailors and the spoils, including his relics, taken to Bari [8] [9] where they are kept to this day. A basilica was constructed the same year to store the loot and the area became a pilgrimage site for the devout, thus justifying the economic cost of the expedition. Saint Nicholas became claimed as a patron saint of many diverse groups, from archers and children to pawnbrokers.[10] He is also the patron saint of both Amsterdam and Moscow.[11]” -- Wikipedia.com
    Jesus, I'm obviously referring to the Santa Claus who is supposed to live at the North Pole and who can apparently deliver gifts to every household on Earth in under 24 hours.

    The Easter Bunny, did you know in Australia they have Easter Bilbies?
    I was referring to the anthropomorphic representation of the Easter Bunny. Do I really need to explain myself like this? I thought it would be so obvious what I was referring to.

    Invisible flying Refrigerators?! That’s a new one to me. I believe its possible but highly in probable at the moment.
    /eyeroll. Seriously.

    Well that’s actually our (I’m refering to Adam and Eve) fault. By eating the forbidden fruit they opened them selves to evil. They died in the spirit and so were cut off from God for god is of the spirit. They no longer had God living in them only there selves and the voice of evil. While they were still able to here God’s voice they had become vulnerable to the things of the world.
    And who was it that put the option, the 'fruit' there for humans? Who's the one who is all knowing and perfectly compassionate yet still put the option, the 'fruit' there for humans? Who's the one who is all-powerful and yet allowed a snake to tempt his creations into choosing the evil he put there in the first place? Why didn't he zap that motherfucker into ashes? Again, if he's supposed to be compassion, why allow his creations to choose evil, knowing what path it would lead them down? It doesn't make any sense. Why give them that option? Why not several good options? A perfectly compassionate, all knowing God can't possibly create humans knowing they're doomed to suffer.

    He basically did make us with the ability to do only good as the whole world was ours to rule over. There was only one thing God said not to do…

    “The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.” --Genesis 2:15-16
    But again, why even give human beings the option to choose evil? God is supposed to be all knowing. He would have always known that human beings would choose the 'forbidden fruit' and start down a path of suffering, so why still create them and present them with that option? An omnibenevolent God who creates human beings he knows are doomed to suffer is impossible.

    Greed is wanting that which isn’t yours. He created the heavens and the earth there for he already has it.
    Wanting something which isn't yours is envy, not greed.

    Documented in the bible, yes?
    No, actually.

    Because they probably don’t believe its possible; faith is needed. Many people try to put God in a box, only believing Him for the small(some) things and not in all things.
    What do you mean they don't believe it's possible and that faith is needed? Why the hell would someone pray to God if they didn't have faith?
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