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Thread: Just a question on your regard to religion

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    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    Default Just a question on your regard to religion

    Do you view science as a decisive way, or just a fundamentalist way of thinking you have everything in front of you and concluding that this must be the key to the universe? To me, religion has alot of bullshit concepts but science can't explain everything - surely some higher powers exist which are actually making this shit be here or happen? I mean, the best science has ever come up with is, "Everything suddenly exploded, then suddenly cells formed and then they evolved and here we are now ".

    There is obviously something more than this; I mean, science has it's boundaries. It can only explain what is happening right now and how, it can't explain why. It explains how the universe was formed, but not why. Discuss. Do you absolutely think there is nothing more to life than science? Or do you think some kind of higher powers or something other than what we can identify must exist?

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    In Soviet Russia, Editor is protected from YOU!! The Editor's Avatar
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    Science cannot explain it yet. Have faith: eventually all will become clear.

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    btw, my stand on religion and science comes from the fact that science never asks me to question logic, only common sense.

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    The Gentleman Fuhrer Pikatwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    Do you view science as a decisive way, or just a fundamentalist way of thinking you have everything in front of you and concluding that this must be the key to the universe? To me, religion has alot of bullshit concepts but science can't explain everything - surely some higher powers exist which are actually making this shit be here or happen? I mean, the best science has ever come up with is, "Everything suddenly exploded, then suddenly cells formed and then they evolved and here we are now ".

    There is obviously something more than this; I mean, science has it's boundaries. It can only explain what is happening right now and how, it can't explain why. It explains how the universe was formed, but not why. Discuss. Do you absolutely think there is nothing more to life than science? Or do you think some kind of higher powers or something other than what we can identify must exist?
    Just because science can't explain something doesn't mean that a supernatural power did it, ignorance like that stems from the God of the Gaps argument. The boundaries of knowledge are continually expanding.

    For every question in the universe, there's an answer, some just take longer to discover than others.

    "Everything suddenly exploded, then suddenly cells formed and then they evolved and here we are now "
    The formation of the universe and all subsequent life was a multi billion year process. It sounds infinitely more plausible than "And everything suddenly appeared in seven days and here we are now".
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    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    Well, there may be an explanation to everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean humanity will ever actually find it and it doesn't mean something isn't happening that we're not aware of that has an influence on our lives.

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    The Gentleman Fuhrer Pikatwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    Well, there may be an explanation to everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean humanity will ever actually find it
    So in other words we should just give up and believe a supernatural force must be responsible for those gaps in knowledge because we may never find all the answers? Right.

    and it doesn't mean something isn't happening that we're not aware of that has an influence on our lives.
    Okay, Hicky. If people want to believe that their imaginary sky friend is real, that their lives have some meaning and purpose because of that belief, then that's their prerogative, I can only make them and their beliefs look stupid so many times before I get tired of it. Meanwhile I'll choose reality and logic and enjoy my life and do whatever I like without worrying whether or not I'm disappointing my sky friend.
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    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    I'm just saying Pikatwo. I wasn't necessarily coordinating those statements to religion.

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    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    I mean, the best science has ever come up with is, "Everything suddenly exploded, then suddenly cells formed and then they evolved and here we are now ".
    What a ridiculous straw man. Science has explained a great deal regarding the development of life with great detail.

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    Quantum physics is God, and I can prove it using simple logic, starting from here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky
    Well, there may be an explanation to everything, but... it doesn't mean something isn't happening that we're not aware of that has an influence on our lives.
    This factor can be one of two things: God, or a poorly understood part of physics. Now, God is known for his ineffability and working in mysterious ways. He also has the rather scary ability to break the better known laws of physics. Let us compare this to quantum physics. Once again it is completely unknown as to why it works, and indeed does so in a suitably mysterious manner. It also shows a complete disregard for classical physics. Therefore quantum physics must be God.

    Note: Any other attributes of God are a result of quantum particles having those weird properties like strangeness and charm.

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    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    What a ridiculous straw man. Science has explained a great deal regarding the development of life with great detail.
    Science hasn't explained why we've suddenly just ended up here, though. We didn't come here just by a draw in the cards, and science seemed to suggest that we just sort of.. evolved. Why it may seem rational and believable, why did it happen? Science doesn't explain 'why?', so that gives people a reason and motivation for turning to religion. I mean, sure, it explained alot of things that happened in detail, but what I'm saying is, is religion still a valid thing to believe in rather than the rough-neck principles of science?

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    It happened because the laws of physics made it happen.

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    Registered Users Regular TeenageAngst's Avatar
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    Arguing religion against science is like a 5 year old arguing his imaginary friend could beat up the schoolyard bully.
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    Dreaming Samurai Horizon's Avatar
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    i understand most things of the big bang theory and how the universe is constantly expanding and whatnot, what the rest of the science minded world would like to know is what was there before the big bang? maybe a god? i like how the universe is mysterious i wouldnt like to know at all what was before the big bang, it would just ruin it. i mean if we found out what the meaning of life was what would be the point in living, id rather enojoy my life without knowing.
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    keen as mustard The Lacemaker's Avatar
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    I don't think this has so much of a relevance to religion, a certain aspect of faith, yes, but not religion per se. And I must disagree - science is driven by the very eternal question of 'why'. For example during the Renaissance, a period in which science and technology were at phenomenal heights, a period when people begun to ask why, that is what brought us to the strive for knowledge in the world as it is now.

    In saying that, this question must apply to today. We cannot unquestioningly accept science as it is now, simply because we seem to have more basis than before. To adopt this apathy would mean we would have no aspiration, no pursuit. Dating back, we could have easily accepted the world was flat. Modern science must be constantly questioned because we are not all-knowing of the world. We must continue to question our science in order to develop, rather than accept things as they are. Science is driven by only this thirst for understanding, the question 'why'. Perhaps in a century our knowledge of the world would have morphed drastically, the things we have been taught at this time been proven incorrect ['proven' not the most appropriate of words].

    Even so, I can agree that life cannot solely be based around science. I like to believe there are things in the world that are inexplicable, at least at present, and science will continue only if we extend if we pursue this never-ending question, why.

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    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    There is obviously something more than this; I mean, science has it's boundaries. It can only explain what is happening right now and how, it can't explain why.
    No, PEOPLE can't explain why. Science will still be science regardless. Unless science can only exist when someone is aware of it. Then we're venturing in Schoedinger's cat's litterbox and OH that's a fun place to go when you're high!

    The formation of the universe and all subsequent life was a multi billion year process. It sounds infinitely more plausible than "And everything suddenly appeared in seven days and here we are now".
    Six days. He rested on the seventh. Though one can argue that if God is incomprehensibly powerful, why couldn't He just create the Universe in 7 nanoseconds and stay awake since then?

    This factor can be one of two things: God, or a poorly understood part of physics. Now, God is known for his ineffability and working in mysterious ways. He also has the rather scary ability to break the better known laws of physics. Let us compare this to quantum physics. Once again it is completely unknown as to why it works, and indeed does so in a suitably mysterious manner. It also shows a complete disregard for classical physics. Therefore quantum physics must be God.
    Nice.

    Science hasn't explained why we've suddenly just ended up here, though. We didn't come here just by a draw in the cards, and science seemed to suggest that we just sort of.. evolved. Why it may seem rational and believable, why did it happen? Science doesn't explain 'why?', so that gives people a reason and motivation for turning to religion. I mean, sure, it explained alot of things that happened in detail, but what I'm saying is, is religion still a valid thing to believe in rather than the rough-neck principles of science?
    Why not? Why wouldn't we have ended up here? And where is here exactly? Earth? 65 Million Years after the dinosaurs died out? The niche for smartest sPecies on Earth? We live on an oxygen rich planet a good distance from the sun to allow liveable climates after about 99% of all organisms have gone extinct. Seems susPiciously convenient? Law of average says that if carbon-based life is indeed possible (and our existence proves it is) at least one of the billions of planets in the galaxy would be positioned in "the goldilocks zone" allowing us to develop. With the sole purpose of every organism being replication, given enough time and subtle mutations, why wouldn't something like us evolve? Really, it's not THAT sudden hickey. It's not like we appeared at the same time as the monerans.

    Regarding the second part of your statement, even if science can explain everything to the last insignificant detail, nobody has the will or brain capacity to learn it all. Don't you have better things to do than learn EVERYTHING EVER!? Of course you do! So naturally there will be things you won't know or need to know or have the desire to learn. All you can have are theories and philosophies. If enough people share your philosophy--hey! you've got a religion! If enough people follow your beliefs, you're a functioning member of a society and have a better chance at surviving to find a mate and replicating.

    Congratulations! You've fulfilled a function you've evolved to suit the optimal conditions for your sPecies at least 100,000 years ago! God must be proud!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nidogod
    Nice.
    Thank you. *bows*

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    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    I always just kind of went with God is time/sPace/matter/energy but yours is the same in principle while being smarter and simpler.


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  18. #18
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    TA I'm not fighting them against each other, I'm just inquiring if you consider religion a valid concept or just a fictitious belief system established for hope and faith.

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    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    Can't it be both?


    I live. I love. I kill. I catch Pokemons. I am content.

  20. #20
    Vanity of vanities, all is vanity Hicky's Avatar
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    i DONT THINK YOURE FEELING ME NIDOGOD

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    Religion is a lie that serves an important purpose to some people. That's all there is to it.

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    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    And on the off chance that one turns out to have it all %100 true, then I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.


    I live. I love. I kill. I catch Pokemons. I am content.

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    Pascal's Wager is for losers who don't want to stand by their beliefs.

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    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicky View Post
    TA I'm not fighting them against each other, I'm just inquiring if you consider religion a valid concept or just a fictitious belief system established for hope and faith.
    It's a fictitious belief system. Most histories of major world religions are documented enough to thoroughly debunk their mystical properties.

    And on the off chance that one turns out to have it all %100 true, then I guess it's better to be safe than sorry.
    Unless that religion holds you back from doing things you'd otherwise enjoy. When that happens the person tends to become an asshat by trying to turn everyone they know into a member of their religion and failing that simply surround themselves with like minded individuals. In the end it's quite a dull and/or loathsome existence. Religion isn't a security net as much as some would like to believe, it's a way of life and a mindset. Those that try to use it as a security net usually have internal struggles cause they realize they're not a good follower, and those that follow it rather deeply usually end up straining at invisible chains as it were.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  25. #25
    Nidogod That Ho!!! Nidogod's Avatar
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    You guys keep telling yourselves that while you're burning in hell lol


    I live. I love. I kill. I catch Pokemons. I am content.

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