Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49

Thread: AFFIRMITIVE ACTION

  1. #1
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default AFFIRMITIVE ACTION

    hey what does pd think about AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

    GO. GO! POST! I will post my thoughts after other posts, as per normal!

  2. #2
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    affirmative action:

    an action or policy favoring those who tend to suffer from discrimination, esp. in relation to employment or education; positive discrimination

    discrimination:

    the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex

    prejudicial:

    harmful to someone or something; detrimental

    According to the dictionary, "positive discrimination" is an oxymoron. Affirmative action by definition is discrimination which by definition is harmful.

    Therefore, affirmative action is harmful.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  3. #3
    Expires- 8/30/07 KidStatutory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,702

    Default

    Black people should just work for free.


    Error does not become Truth because it is widely accepted;
    Truth does not become error, even when it stands alone.


    Paired with: Mex - Eve

  4. #4
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    I think that Affirmative Action is quite silly really. It says to a company that they have to have a certain number of minorities even if white people who are more qualified apply before said minority. If a minority interviews they basically get the job no matter if there are more qualified people who also interviewed.

    It is also job protection for underqualified bad employees who are lazy.

    For example: A native american worked for the local hospital in the IT department. He regularly screwed things up BADLY but never went beyond a suspension because of his race. If he were white he would have been fired years before. Said individual is a really good guy, runs an animal rescue shelter and knows obscene amounts about dogs... But god save him he isn't one for the IT field at all.

    Another example: I worked next to a RL black barbie doll. She was gorgeous and knew it. One of those people who never married because she was too cute for all the men she dated and is now 30something, single, and realizing she isn't as cute as she was. Anyway, she showed up late, never completed her work, left early, ate at her desk, talked incessantly, and whenever she was brought up on disciplinary charges she always said, "You are doing this because I am black!" which is preposterous really, but she was never fired. She worked maybe 20 hours a week and got paid for 40.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  5. #5
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    It is a fact that almost every white person in America still benefits socially and economically from slavery. It is also a fact that subconscious racism exists prominently and certainly would come into play in job interviews. It is also a fact that our society is set up so that it is easier for a white person to get "qualification" than it is for a black person.

    I am in favor of affirmative action, but think it should be expanded to include socio-economic criteria and not just racial criteria.

  6. #6
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    but it's harmful
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  7. #7
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    Are you using linguistic semantic, or is this a real debate

  8. #8
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    IDK I'm just going by what the dictionary says.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  9. #9
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    What do YOU think of Affirmative Action, RC!

  10. #10
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Discrimination is wrong against any group of people, simply changing the polarity doesn't automatically make it right.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  11. #11
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    Yeah, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by God
    It is a fact that almost every white person in America still benefits socially and economically from slavery. It is also a fact that subconscious racism exists prominently and certainly would come into play in job interviews. It is also a fact that our society is set up so that it is easier for a white person to get "qualification" than it is for a black person.

  12. #12
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    That can only change on a person to person basis. Adopting company policies that outright declare they're gonna discriminate based on age, sex, religion, social status, etc but in the opposite way of what's usually done is pretty much like handing your Human Resources department over to the ACLU. It also does nothing to squelch discrimination, if anything it reinforces the inferiority/superiority complexes and fosters more.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  13. #13
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    That's the great thing about monster.com

    You can't tell race from a resume. If they follow a resume from monster with a phone interview and only SERIOUSLY see qualified candidates face to face, racism should be all but eliminated without the need for silly laws.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  14. #14
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedCheetah View Post
    That can only change on a person to person basis. Adopting company policies that outright declare they're gonna discriminate based on age, sex, religion, social status, etc but in the opposite way of what's usually done is pretty much like handing your Human Resources department over to the ACLU. It also does nothing to squelch discrimination, if anything it reinforces the inferiority/superiority complexes and fosters more.
    It'd be pretty hard for a law to enforce racial complexes anymore than they already are, Affirmative Action certainly doesn't really do anything towards race relation positively or negatively, it just makes it easier for minorities to get fair job opportunities. And if one of those poor more-qualified white men(who are probably more qualified in the first place because they are white men) lose a job to one of the ever-powerful black men, they likely won't have a terrible time finding another job.

  15. #15
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    ALSO I should point out that Irish-Americans are highly discriminated upon and have been in the past. So then we have a different set of racisms to deal with. We should have to have a certain amount of O'Neals and O'Haras in the work force as well as Inuits and Hawaiians.

    Then there are the religious discriminations of the Jews, the Muslims, the list goes on...

    People are racists for more reasons than skin tone.

    So it is possible to not get a job based on name, Aidan Flaherty may not get a job any faster than Abraham Davids.

    So perhaps one should be assigned a Job Application Anonymity number under which to submit their resume to be completely fair.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  16. #16
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    I think God just hates white people.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  17. #17
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    I hate white people who don't understand just how many benefits they have been born into for no reason other than being white.


    Nah, I probably just hate white people in general.

  18. #18
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    England had white slaves until it became unfashionable. So I guess that is racism. People have enslaved their own race from time out of mind.

    Poor white people have no more advantages than poor black people.

    Poor white men have fewer advantages thanks to grants and scholarships aimed at women and minorities. And also thanks to Affirmative Action they have fewer job opportunities.

    Living in my neighborhood the white men act like the black men, have the same education (or lack thereof) and fewer job opportunities.

    Hating your own race... That's disgusting. Hating any race isn't much better but I can at least understand the animalistic hatred for things different than you and not of your own clan.

    Hating your own clan... Stupid.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  19. #19
    what about .. eyebrows God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    among the people
    Posts
    49,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keke Le Cat View Post
    England had white slaves until it became unfashionable. So I guess that is racism. People have enslaved their own race from time out of mind.

    Poor white people have no more advantages than poor black people.

    Poor white men have fewer advantages thanks to grants and scholarships aimed at women and minorities. And also thanks to Affirmative Action they have fewer job opportunities.
    Well, yeah, poor whites are not much better off(i would say they are a little better off) than poor blacks, I have said this MANY A TIME. That's why I think Affirmative Action should extend to socio-economic conditions as well.

    Mostly when I say "white people", i mean middle class and above whites who make over 30k a year household income or so. i generalize like that

  20. #20
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    There's more to success than climbing the corporate ladder =>_>=
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  21. #21
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    Saying you hate anyone who makes less than $30k per year would be saying you hate everyone who does not qualify for welfare.

    With 3 people in the household you can make up to $33,999 a year and still qualify for wic and welfare. That is 180% below poverty level in Indiana. In states with a higher population/income ratio the 180% below poverty level would be higher, so in places like LA county the 180% below poverty level is almost $40k per year...

    We make just under $40k a year and I would consider myself poor as we are just under poverty level. Heh.

    After the house payment, bills, etc there isn't much disposable income to be found on that salary. If we had a car payment thrown in there as well we wouldn't be able to go to the movies or out to eat. It'd be stay at home only.

    I think you under estimate the cost of surviving in this country, and raising children comfortably, let alone with luxuries.

    Lower middle class would make $150k plus per year. Upper lower class is anything less than that to about $90k.

    In most cases without two incomes a family cannot sustain. Because women have forced their way into the workplace they are now forced to work. Kind of ironic I'd say.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  22. #22
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    It's worth noting these incomes only apply to people with kids. Having children increases the amount of money you spend to ludicrous levels. Not having children, I'd say a couple making a combined income of $100,000 a year could easily be considered upper middle class.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  23. #23
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    No the class levels are without kids and based solely on household income... The welfare/wic qualifications are naturally with children but adults count toward household totals.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

  24. #24
    Furry Authority RedCheetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    3,190

    Default

    Yes but I'm saying the standard of living would be significantly higher without children.
    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Time Enough For Love, by Robert Heinlein

  25. #25
    cogito ergo doleo Keke Le Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hilbert Space
    Posts
    11,174

    Default

    Definitely. They are adorable little money pits.

    1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •